News Source: http://outspokenmedia.com
Published: Mar 13, 2009 - 11:32 am
Story Found By: aimClear 1066 Days ago
Category: SEM
12 Comments
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News Source: http://outspokenmedia.com
Published: Mar 13, 2009 - 11:32 am
Story Found By: aimClear 1066 Days ago
Category: SEM
12 Comments
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Comments
Lisa (OutSpokenMedia) has been kicking butt at PubCon South w/solid Live Blogged content the past 2 days. It makes things so much easier for those attending (and not attending) to get caught up w/ what was presented.
One of the panelists’ recommendations on hiring: "What to Look For: Big sites? If all they have worked on is less than 10k pages, move on."What? I’ve been in the industry since 2000; I’ve worked on a lot of sites for a lot of clients in a variety of industries. And I’ve never worked on a site with even close to 10k pages, or even 2K pages. Most sites on the web are much smaller. Isn’t one reason we all love SEO because the little guy can beat the Fortune 500 companies who have sites with 10k pages? Restricting your hiring to only people who have worked with monster-sized sites seems like a counterproductive HR filter.
I also think that Joanna’s statement of a being paid 56k for five years of experience way to low. Someone that has proven themselves won’t think twice about walking away from that offer. While economic times might not be what they were…its probably still better for companies to spend the cash and invest in quality employees.
Never sphunn live blogging notes before but really interesting - thanks for putting those together! :)
56k salary for an experienced online marketer. omg... you guys working for "the man" need to work on your own sites/projects. You can make more than that as a "garbage man".. er I think "sanitation worker" is what they want to be called. (don’t want to offend anyone)Lisa’s coverage of the search conferences rock. No one does it better.
@DorianI’m assuming that you’re from the UK from the garbage man reference. Yes, US salaries do tend to be surprising low from that perspective. I’ve read reports estimating average SEM pay at $80k in NYC, when you would be looking at 2x or 3x that for the same level in London. Consider though that costs in the US are generally ower than those in the UK. Petrol (gas), car and house prices are all amazing. However Lisa did comment that she thought that figure was low. Would be interesting to see what other Americans say. I’d also disagree about the 10k pages reference. Large sites require their own skillset but plenty of brand sites have nowhere near that many pages. The only possible reason to make that a "deal breaker" on an interview is if you are recruiting for a large content site.
I would like to see someone do a new salary comparison report between say London, New York and Seattle.
Well jeez, I guess all of my experience working in one of the most competative industries online all means nothing, as sites in this sector generally have less than 100 pages! and I’m obviouslly over paid too, guess I shouldn’t be hoping for that promotion later in the year. Again there seems to be this trend of going against new talent in tihs industry, the people who have been around for manty years have it in their heads that "newbies" don’t know thier stuff, in truth there are people who have been around for over a decade (working on 10k+) who still know didly, and there are people who have been doing seo for less than a year (working on -1000 page sites) who could market them under the table. I heard that in nursing this idea of experinced professionals assuming that people new to the job are crap is called "eating the young", I sincerely hope this doesn’t become the trend in SEM.
Eating the young. Preserving the SEO species. I like that! "Again there seems to be this trend of going against new talent in this industry, the people who have been around for many years have it in their heads that "newbies" don’t know thier stuff."Newbie? Know their stuff? I’m not certain how a newbie can know their stuff. They may know a little bit of stuff but not a lot of stuff that many clients need these days to succeed. Knowing a little bit of stuff may be a recipe for disaster for some."In truth there are people who have been around for over a decade (working on 10k+) who still know didly."Hopefully there are not many of those in comparison to the newbies you are referring to. Most of the people I know who have been doing this for over a decade know their stuff and if they want to eat the young, so be it. We have to feed somehow. :)"And there are people who have been doing seo for less than a year (working on -1000 page sites) who could market them under the table."I don’t know many who fit into this category. SEO is not something you pick up on in less than a year. You can read all you want but until you have the field knowledge and experience or tenure, I don’t think you can claim the SEO title. It takes a good 9-12 months to see the real benefits of a solid SEO campaign. Ya I know, results will come a lot quicker than that but those are usually volatile in nature, and many will do things in a knee jerk reaction to counter what they may be seeing. That’s one of the big differences, knowing when to wait things out. Patience is not something many have these days when it comes to SEO."I heard that in nursing this idea of experinced professionals assuming that people new to the job are crap is called "eating the young", I sincerely hope this doesn’t become the trend in SEM."That has been a trend for as long as I can remember. I was eaten. Then regurgitated. I learned after that first meal. I stayed silent for almost 3 years before I felt confident enough that my abilities were on par with my peers at the time.The trend today is for anyone who can write to install a Blog and then start writing about SEO. Some of the writing is good, most of it is surface SEO, it only touches on the basics and even then, they’ve got those borked to some degree. That’s okay, I surely don’t mind having the young around as it keeps things interesting. Keeps me damn plate full too! :)P.S. I had to devote a Tweet to this. http://Twitter.com/pageoneresults/status/1336194139
See I put "newbies" in inverted commas because I don’t think it’s just real newbies (i.e. less than a year) who are being grouped in this catagory, I think (like in the liveblog) it is applied to people who haven’t been in the industry for more than 5 years...you could qualify and practice as a doctor in that time, yet the assumtion is that you can’t learn enough to do SEO?There might not be a lot of 10y+ people around here who don’t know their stuff, but I used to work for one, and learnt more in the year after I stopped working for him than I had in the 2 years prior to that. some people get 10 years of experience where others get 1 year of experience 10 times over :)I think "eating the young" is fine, survival of the species as you say, as long as you are sure that only the weak are the ones to be eaten. I also agree with you on the followingThe trend today is for anyone who can write to install a Blog and then start writing about SEO. Some of the writing is good, most of it is surface SEO, it only touches on the basics and even then, they’ve got those borked to some degree.But I would argue that there are some in the 2-5 year experience bracket who really do know what they are doing, and they are going to get really frustrated if they are assumed not to know what they are doing because they haven’t been around the block enough times.
It’s not the size of the site that matters. It’s how well you use your skills that makes you a good SEO.
I really think there are consequences to panel/speaker selection, and maybe this is an example. If you choose the speakers for a conference session, they of course can present their experience and opinions. But if they present facts, the facts should be accurate. In this case, one speaker has been challenged on multiple statements of fact. I hope whomever selected the speakers notes this.I don’t intend to malign the speaker... perhaps he could have presented this things as opinion or personal experience. There is a huge difference. If he did, and the reporting didn’t convey that, we have no problem.