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from planetc1 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 2

Some serious commentary from Marty and a secret about his past life!

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from Lyndon 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 9

So the question is, how far do you go to get your stories to the front page of Sphinn?Marty pushes the discussion further in this post, although I don’t agree with him on a number of points. Marty is a great guy and a master connector. But not everyone has his skill, some people think that all you have to do to get to the front page is send out the requests, vote on other peoples stuff and friend people.Yeah that may work, but at what cost to your brand. Do you wanna be the annoying kid in the playground who is always asking for sweets.I had a number of pings this week asking me about if a certain sphinner was annoying the hell out of me by constantly pinging for sphinns, I am sure you can get a front page doing that but at what price.I started a previous discussion on this matter by pointing out that a lot of us here are experts at gaming other social networks. In fact I think we have the highest concentration of social media marketers on the web here. So any clumsy tactic you use is soon going to be identified and that will effect your image.But hey, it all depends what you want out of this place. I want a specific thing, which is mainly about branding and reputation building, but if all you want is a bit of traffic your approach is going to be different.And no I don’t think I am suggesting socialism, I believe it’s good business.

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from aimClear 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 3

Lyndon, we agree on MANY more points than we disagree...and YOU taught taught me a LOT of what I know about social media and Sphinn...mostly how to have integrity in social media. I like the way you do things.

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from Lyndon 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 7

Marty, being able to disagree about some things publicly is something that people who respect each other do. It is also a sign of confidence on the part of the participants. But, as we have discussed before we take different things from this place and we have different business models.My model means that I am a good boy here ;)You have brought a lot of personality to Sphinn and some very useful posts, and I think people can learn from your uber networking skills. But I don’t think it’s for everyone and noobs could take certain aspects of what you do and think that is all there is to it. I think you have to have great social skills to get where you are.Hey, don’t go painting me as a white hat, whiney bitch, lol. It’s all about what works for your business model and what works for me on social media is to keep my nose clean.At least, that’s what I let people think ;)

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from robwatts 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 5

Personally, I’m more than happy to both ask and be asked to Sphinn stuff. This isn’t some cosy little club where we are all nice to each other thatexists for the purpose of just existing. It exists to talk about and discuss issues related to Internet marketing no?I agree with what most of what Marty said in that for me most of this is about connecting and marketing and networking and business. It’s about getting stuff that we want to the front page of the Gig, for whatever reason.If we can get enough people to agree with us, we win, if we don’t then we have falied or have been too lazy to get out there and make it happen,in fact we might as well of not bothered in the 1st place.To expect something to just sit there and get sphunn is a little like expecting a tin of tomatoes to just leap off of the shelf and sell themselves. They wont and they dont. They are packaged and promoted to the right place on the shelf. Once sampled they’ll either get a repeat buy or get shunned in favour of something a little more tastier.The point is though that without a initial push without a person or two pushing them then noone will ever know about them.If I a find a nice product I’ll tell my friends about them, I kinda figure that thats what my Sphinn friends and SU friends and Digg friends are for. Where I can I’ll help them, not always but most times, its really no big deal to use a few seconds of my time to help out.

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from liamvictor 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 2

Personally I don’t pop by here enough, so when someone pings me I’m usually more than happy to see some decent content, and delighted to be included in the "conversation".In fact, I think I’m going to make something to agregate my friends (and those I stalk) submits so I can stay a little more on top of things here.

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from aimClear 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 0

Lyndon, are you saying the difference in our models is that I am NOT a good boy here :). These comments are awesome.

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from DoshDosh 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 8

I’m ok with asking for votes from others on social news sites but I have a few personal principles: 1. Only push exceptional content. (So the voter won’t mind putting their brand/vote behind it) 2. Don’t push too much. (asking for votes every day or multiple times a day might be too much) 3. Ask the right people. (People who are very active on the social news site would have probably seen the story already. Alternatively, approach people who you know is in favor of the story angle, story source (blogger/websites) or the submitter so they won’t feel obliged) 4. Alternate your requests. (Every top social media user has a network he or she can call upon for votes/favors. If you have 50 people on IM, don’t ask the same people every time. Ask one and then ask another for different voters. This doesn’t make you look pushy.) Of course, I’m writing from the perspective of an active social media user. This is what I use for sites like Reddit, Propeller or Digg... not so much for Sphinn though. On the other hand, I don’t like to artificially push a story right to the Sphinn frontpage by just IMing everyone for 21 votes ( the amount needed). I really don’t like that. I see some REALLY crappy stories get frontpaged on Sphinn within 2 hours. And its very clear that all 21 votes were artificial. That is kinda lame.Sphinn is a community of experts and I value their opinions. I would let the community look over the content a little and decide if they want to vote it up. EVEN if I really want to push a particular story, I would never push it from the onset artificially... maybe just a little nudge after 18 hours or a day, which is ample time for everyone to more or less take a look.

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from aimClear 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 2

Maki (Dosh Dosh’s) "personal principles"  make the most sense to me of all.

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from AndyBeard 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 1

You know it is times like this with the "bases loaded" that you sometimes get the twitch to ping someone a message. http://sphinn.com/upcoming/mostpopular/ They just "hover" there and you wonder if they will float over onto the front page, or die a death because only regular Sphinn users use that page.Note none of the stories on that page are from my domains, but if those 3 cherries ripen then I will regain my spot on Top Sphinners ahead of Marty ;)

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from aimClear 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 0

I just sphunn your stories on the "upcoming with most Sphinns" page Andy. They were all well-deserved. :) #4,5,6,7 whatever...it doesn’t matter. The pleasure is in the hunt pal.

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from qwerty 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 5

I guess my methods in this social sphere are kind of antisocial. I go through the titles in the What’s New feed, read what interests me, and sphinn and/or comment on what I find to be worthwhile, without regard for who wrote or submitted it.So far, one member here has asked me to let him know when I submit something, and I think I’ve remembered to do that about half the time. Apart from that, anything I submit rises or falls on its own.Then again, I’ve had far more success here than on Reddit or Digg. where my submissions are invariably ignored. What that tells me is that on those sites, there’s really no way to succeed without a network of people you can count on to support your stuff, and that’s far less important here on Sphinn -- at least so far.

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from steaprok 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 3

Thank you for starting this dialogue Marty! And Andy for being on his game and submitting it super fast! I agree mostly with the point that one can easily dilute or marginalize ones brand or message, by acting like a sphinn junkie, panhandling in the back alleys of the web for sphinns or digs or whatever! And yes especially here @ Sphinn. I mean I thought that the whole point was to create a community, where we can all find useful and relevant information on our industry. NOT, to try and play the players. That defeats the whole point, and furthermore also dilutes the quality of the community. Not only by promoting crappy content, but my encouraging others to do the same and see Sphinn as just another Social Media vehicle to exploit. And to be clear I’m not saying I haven’t exploited Social Media, but there are conscious methods to go about doing so, which don’t dilute or take away from the integrity of a community. And there are blatantly mindless methods, which only hurt and decay a community. It has never even crossed my mind to out right ask someone to sphinn or digg something of mine, or even that I’ve submitted. Granted, I’m not on the Hot Spinners anymore! But oh well! Everything in life is impermanent right? .

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from aimClear 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 1

You’re on my hot shinner list...

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from nathania 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 1

I’m totally with Marty.I don’t have the time to go around and do everything that I’m "supposed" to do in social media. otherwise, i’d spend my entire day on DiggStumbleRedditPropellerDeliciousGooruzeSphinnSk-rtWikipediaTanglerTwitterAmazonTeamSugarReading 100s of blogsCommenting on 100s of blogsDirectly contacting 100s of bloggersMaking 100s of bloggers my best friendsI have client work to do. A family to love.  A life to live. And even when I do spend time doing all of these things that some of you say I should - most of you don’t return the favor. Somehow, you never like any of the stuff I write. You never Stumble, Sphinn, Digg or comment. Which is pretty crazy. And sad for you, cuz I’m a freakin’ awesome writer.Get off the high horse and down to reality. So, Marty - keep on keeping on and poo on the naysayers!

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from planetc1 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 2

I’ve been scouring the entire site for months and for some reason the most popular page had slipped right by me. Thanks for pointing that one out Andy!There is potential for some of this stuff to go down in history, as long as it’s organized properly. If we look across a handful of sites (including this one) we see different methods that are all intended to accomplish the same thing.Like different methods of playing the guitar, time to start branding some of the biggest names in social media with terms like... The Lynden Approach, The Maki Method, The Marty Principal, The Andy Beard Protocol, and The Tamar Strategy.@nathania: As I mentioned in a recent post (http://sphinn.com/story/11238) consider getting a unique avatar as research shows your likelihood to have a sphinn go hot on a generic green badge, is slim.

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from Lyndon 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 7

@ Marty, "Lyndon, are you saying the difference in our models is that I am NOT a good boy here :)" I only presume to speak for myself. I am not saying that gaming Sphinn makes you bad, I am not one for applying ethics when it comes to Internet marketing. If it works, do it. My point is, if a sphinner can only get to the front page because of his little club then what does that say about their marketing efforts and what does that say about his little club who push crap. I think in this thread people are mistaking mass IM’ing of crap for the odd pinging of a few trusted friends of quality stuff.It probably doesn’t happen that often, but I have noticed it creeping in and some seem to delight in the fact they can get front pages simply be being a member of a cosy club. Yes Rob, it is a cosy little club here. Indeed, a number of cosy little clubs exist, and if you aint a part of it then you aint a part of it.A new participant to Sphinn could have real good stuff, but as they are not members of these mutual back scratching clubs (I am tempted to use another term but don’t want to get this post deleted ;) they have little chance of making it. Just like on digg, where being a member of one of the clubs means more likelyhood of hitting the front page.@ Nathania, I don’t really get what you mean by "high horse", I am not taking any high ground, as this is not the issue. I am simply pointing out that it annoys me that crap sometimes makes it to the front page because of cosy little clubs. Don’t worry I behave like a rotter on other social networks.@ planetc1. I agree that we all have different styles and way of doing things and none of them are right or wrong, but they do have different effects. Perception is all we have online, most of us never press the flesh with each other and so we only know each other by each others actions.Don’t misunderstand me, this is not about right and wrong, good or bad, bloody hel who am I to say another is wrong. I merely disagree with some of the methods at work here and believe it is not a long term strategy.Ach, I have taken too long over this, I hate this long threaded discussions, you have to write so much for a point to be properly understood.What I do find interesting is who is and who isn’t participating in this and other threads of the same subject. I first brought this matter up here http://sphinn.com/story/10062And to be honest, I don’t give a toss if people don’t vote for me because I brought this up.

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from aimClear 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 0

Ok, maybe it’s time we all take a step back on this one. We’re all phriends right? :)

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from nathania 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 1

Lyndon - wasn’t talking about you - you practice what you preach. I’m mostly referring to people who want everyone to vote for them, comment on their stuff, etc - but never really reach out to do the same for others.And to be clear, I don’t think anyone is ignoring me on purpose - there’s a ton of bloggers out there who don’t get nearly the attention they deserve.

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from TimDineen 2552 Days ago #
Votes: 2

Is it too late to join a club? Or start one?  ;)

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from g1smd 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 1

I always wondered how some of the complete junk previously posted got voted up so quick, but the pattern of who voted for what (something I hadn’t taken much notice of until recently) sure is interesting in some of those cases.

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from dharmesh 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 1

Andy,For the record, we’re not all phriends but phals.  :)

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from aimClear 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 0

L O L !!!

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from FredPeters 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 3

Wow!! This is one of the most interesting threads I have read in a long time.  As someone who is new to Sphinn, it can seem pretty daunting to break into the club.  Without a network of friends, good content falls off the front of the What’s New page very quickly.  Once you are on page 3 or 4 you can forget about getting any attention.

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from MattMcGee 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 3

Fred, by commenting here you’re taking the necessary first step. Well done. If I may be so bold as to suggest a second step, get yourself a recognizable avatar. Lose the green circle. :-)Here’s a lengthy answer to why:http://sphinn.com/story/11238Great discussion, gang.

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from aimClear 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 0

Good advice Matt...and BTW greetings, glad to see you here.m

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from Lyndon 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 4

Indeed Matt, the green circle of death. Reveal yourself ;)@nathania, sorry I thought you were talking about me.Here’s an idea, go dig out a piece of crap from the history and see who voted on it. Dig out another piece of crap and see if the same people voted for it, then contact the people and join their cosy little club so your own crap can get to the front page.It works on digg so why can’t it work here? Well one reason is that you are easily identified as a poacher because the site is full of poachers turned game keepers and some of us are really, really good poachers.Of course this raises the question. What the hell is Sphinn for? Anyone got the balls to come out and say it’s simply there for them to get a front page and links?I take the view that it is very useful tool for me to use and don’t want to see it broken by cosy little clubs running round voting for each others stuff rather than quality.At the end of the day, this place is what we make it.

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from SamFreedom 2551 Days ago #
Votes: -1

<b>Oh MY... I am reading this thread and, like HULK, want to SMASH...</b>On one hand, I agree with Marty that there should be no question about people asking others to Sphinn an article.  I even commented that on his blog.  It could help newcomers, with quality content, get a little boost to get them going.On the other hand, I CAN see Lyndon’s point, and I will gladly translate "back scratching clubs" into "brown nosing clubs" for him.  Although I suspect he would have preferred the word "kissing" in there somewhere.  We DO know that in all kinds of social media venues there are these bizarre, fanatical groupie clicks that form - which often have nothing to do with the writing quality of the core group and <i>more to do with how many Monty Python quotes participants can rattle off in under 30 seconds.</i>And on the third hand (...my mother worked at a nuclear power plant), I can relate to Nathania (who’s totally with Marty) in "I have client work to do. A family to love.  A life to live."<b>So I want to remind the MARKETER in some of you</b> that MY aim, anyways, was to learn to use the internet so that, ultimately, I could spend less time on it and more time pursuing the things that truly make me happy.  <b>If living on the web makes you happy, then fine, but maybe you’d want to pursue FINANCIAL FREEDOM first so that you can surf and blog all day without having to worry that maybe your need to put food on your tables might unconsciously be coloring your comments and opinions.</b>If participants had their monthly expenses, plus some, this conversation would almost assuredly be moot.That’s just my Adsense click...

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from dsemmler 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 2

This has been a great discussion and there have been many quality points made on both sides.The way that I have approached Sphinn is to browse through the What’s New pages and follow through what I find to be interesting.  Just like with blog posts, much of that depends on whether or not the title of the Sphinn is "catchy" or interesting.Because I don’t have an endless amount of time to spend on here and miss quite a few stories on the What’s New page, I appreciate when a fellow Sphinner drops me a note if there is something that caught their eye.In the short time I have been on Sphinn, I’ve submitted three stories and have contacted a few people myself.  Being new I wouldn’t say that I am part of any cosy club because I don’t really know many of you yet.  My first Sphinn ended up being a duplicate submission with Andy Beard submitting the same post just minutes before me.  The more recent two Sphinns, I have dropped a note to people that Sphunn similar stories to simply mention that they might also be interested in this post.It is all fascinating to me and I have learned a lot just through this discussion.  Thanks everyone!

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from Lyndon 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 1

Sam, what I self censored was a lot more of the gutter, I have a pretty filthy mouth when I get going and find I constantly have to self censor and bind myself in a diplomatic strait jacket.I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong to send out a few requests to get votes, if so, make yourself known. But I do disagree with a culture of anything goes and getting anything on the front page no matter what.And no, I don’t think that makes me a socialist, more a free marketeer with strong regularity controls. Even the US Federal Reserve controls the money supply, but lets not make this into macro economics else we will be here all day, lolOK, I have taken way more time than I should have on this, when I should have been doing client work ;)This is my last word on this.

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from aimClear 2551 Days ago #
Votes: 0

The comments are getting wild in the <a href="http://www.aimclearblog.com/2007/10/27/confessions-of-a-sphinn-vote-begging-whore-not-really/#comment-1569">original post too. </a>

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from katfrench 2550 Days ago #
Votes: 0

The grammar geek in me can’t restrain herself.  It’s "cliques"--not "clicks."  Although, given it’s online, perhaps you could make the argument that "clicks" is an eggcorn.  Sorry, pet peeve. 

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from matt608 2550 Days ago #
Votes: 1

A debate about the most ethical way to game a system... It just keeps going because people keep inter changing the word "right" with "best branding/marketing strategy". What is being discussed is "best branding/marketing strategy", where other peoples concept of "right" is 1 factor. Can’t believe I got sucked in.

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