How Google Profiles SEO’s

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71
Sphinn It!

Went Hot: Jun 09, 2009 - 09:17 am
Posted By: jeremymartin 285 Days ago
Source: http://www.wolf-howl.com
Category: SEO

At SMX one of the more contentious subjects was the debate over Google’s Android Phone giveaway, and demonstration that they are in practice profiling SEO’s.

22 Comments

Comments

from OlivierAmar2 285 Days ago #

Votes: 3

I hate that Michael Gray has taken out the comments on his blog (it seems the haterz won) so I guess this is the forum to talk about his posts now. I’m going to agree and disagree with what Michael said. Yes there’s a double standard when it comes to what he’s described (shame on you Google) but I don’t think they’re profiling all the SEO people. I think when you’re as high profile as "graywolf" then Google will have an eye on what you’re doing. Sorry Michael but you’re kind of a sitting duck for them. On top of that they know that every time they pick on you, you’ll make a stink about it and that with the amount of people that are subscribed to and follow you, they can get a message across to the people out there. You’re their PR agency just as much as Matt Cutts is. I still think you rock though.

from graywolf 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

@oliverAmar2>I think when you’re as high profile as "graywolf" then Google will have an eye on what you’re doing.yeah but I’m a whole lot less high profile compared to Robert Scoble, Sarah Lacy, and Guy Kawasaki, who get free travel and 3 month "loaner" cars and then link to things without any of the same google scrutinyAnd as scoble demonstrated when he linked to his brother with the anchor text and was ranking a few days later, he knows the value of anchor text and a link

from OlivierAmar2 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

I fully agree with you, but I still have this feeling that they’re using you as their own PR agency inside the SEO world. People who read Guy or Sarah don’t spend their days trying to help their clients move up the rankings. People who read you do. You’re a better medium for their message no matter how warped it is. I’ll tell you the truth, most of the penalties (or lack of them in some cases) I find out from either you directly or retweets of your stuff. Not Scobles, Lacys or Kawasakis.

from Skitzzo 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

Matt Cutts has always cited "intent" as their guiding light and to me thats the same as Google admitting that they can’t deal with paid links via their algo & they haven’t been able to improve their algo so that it doesn’t rely so heavily on links.Matt said that one of the Tech Crunch links was ok because he asked the author whether the link was because of the sponsorship. I’d buy & sell links all day long if Matt would ask me my intent & believe me when I told him they weren’t designed to manipulate rankings.

from Jill 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

@graywolf, can you point out where you were forced to add the info about nofollow to your faq? Your article doesn’t explain how you’re forced to do so, but Guy and Scoble, et al are not.

from graywolf 285 Days ago #

Votes: 2

There is no article or blog post about it, however I can tell you with 110% certainty that I was told if I didn’t want to risk a google penalty I should make those changes. Yes I appreciate the fact that people at google took the time/energy to reach out and let me know before hand.I just want to see a level playing field, if google wants to extend that curteosy to those folks and give them time to clean up thier links, I’m fine with it. However for them to feign ignorance of nofollow at this point is a bit of a hollow argument.

from Jill 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

Did they tell you in person, or did you get some sort of notification? How do you know that those other people have not been informed of the rules as well?

from graywolf 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

in personSince Guy’s last "loaner" car post was may 24 th and link is straight I’m comfortable with no one having talked to him before thathttp://blog.guykawasaki.com/2009/05/the-kick-ass-audi-q7.htmlIf something happened after that I have no knowledge of it

from Jill 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

But maybe they were talked to, but don’t care? Or maybe they don’t have the opportunity to talk to Google engineers the way you (and other SEOs) do. Do you think MC goes around msging all SEOs with this info? Or was he simply having a conversation with you at lunch one day?Some might not put nofollow on their review links whether or not they got "threatened" by Google. I think those bloggers have heard of the Google guidelines, but perhaps they don’t care because they’re not doing it for the link juice, and perhaps you don’t need to care either on your site. I’m assuming you didn’t see any kind of penalty before you put that info in your faq. And if not, you’re taking quite a leap to say there’s a double standard, imo. (I have no idea, I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate here.)

from graywolf 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

I know they spoke around march-ish 2009 there was a tech issue around the launch of his new alltop.com personal sites having robots.txt issues. There is a picture of him standing with matt and him not recognizing him, but knowing who he was when he read his name badge, and them chatting afterwards. I just can’t find the post, GRRRLike I said I appreciate them giving me the heads up first and allowing me to change it, but it was pretty clear if I didn’t I was going to end up in the penalty box sitting next to pay-per-post

from AlanBleiweiss 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

What ticks me off is that Matt is so consistently stuck on the "you’re free to do what you want" line. It pains me because I understand they need to do what they can for quality indexing yet at the same time they have such deep double standards it’s sickening. Ever since the first time they slammed "paid text links" I was furious given that is their primary revenue model. If I didn’t understand how big business bullies use this kind of thinking at the corporate culture level I’d be shocked. But alas, it’s part of the American "free enterprise" mind-set, though we shouldn’t just sit and take it.

from charlotteseo 285 Days ago #

Votes: -2

This is a really hot topic, but nobody is brave enough to stand up to Google.....except for Michael Gray, and Lisa Barone.Hope this is going to be a bigger turnout than just a couple of articles.

from DanielMcskelly 285 Days ago #

Votes: 6

Let me get this straight. You got a personal (and, I would assume, friendly) warning from Matt Cutts PRIOR to a penalty being applied, and you’re complaining about unfair treatment.Give me a break. I’ve got a lot of respect for both Michael & Lisa, but this "story" is, frankly, bullshit. 99.9% of other webmasters would have got a straight banhammer with no warning before or explanation after, how is graywolf being bullied? Sheesh.All of which is leaving aside the fact that Michael has blogged for years about google and seo from an angle which, I think it’s fair to say, might be considered adverserial to their business goals. I’m no google apologist but I think it’s hugely naive not to expect that to draw a little extra attention.

from graywolf 285 Days ago #

Votes: 0

@DanielMcskelly just to be clear you’re ok with guy kawasaki getting "loaner" cars and robert scoble getting all expense paid trips for links but if an SEO gives away a pair of sunglasses its worthy of a google penalty?

from DanielMcskelly 285 Days ago #

Votes: 4

Nope. If they both got penalized for payola links my reaction would be somehwere between "meh" and a hearty laugh, depending on mood. The comparison with scoble/kawasaki/the android stunt holds up to a point, but at the end of the day this is business, and a totally level playing field isn’t going to happen. Are you really at all surprised that Google pays special attention to high profile SEOs?Even if you are, I don’t see what there is to complain about. Correct me if I’m wrong but you got a friendly warning from Matt giving you a heads up that you have a problem (in their eyes). I think it’s ironic you’re calling the waaaambulance over something 99.9% of webmasters would consider an absolute godsend.

from AlanBleiweiss 285 Days ago #

Votes: 0

@DanielMcskellyPersonally I’m grateful that Matt Cutts considered @graywolf highly enough to have given him such a warning. It validated and verified in a direct manner what webmasters who get straight "banhammered" would not ever otherwise be able to truly confirm. The fact is this isn’t because @graywolf is some elite snob either. That whole notion is insane. Matt Cutts does a great deal in helping our community yet he’s almost always so elusive and deceptive. And @graywolf has a SERIOUS point regarding scum like Guy Kawasaki and Scoble. This is not a level playing field and we get the shaft in these situations. I for one will not just roll over and grease up.

from incrediblehelp 285 Days ago #

Votes: 1

Clearly a prejudice exists. They have shown this with big websites clearly spamming or using black hat techniques, slapping them on the wrist with explanation as to what they did wrong and then putting them back where they "belong" in the SERPs. Will smaller websites get the same treatment? No. Google explains this as when you type "BMW" as a query you expect their website to be there. Obviously regardless of what their webmaster/SEO does to SPAM Google. Ridiculous.

from OlivierAmar2 284 Days ago #

Votes: 0

I think the number of Sphinns and the amount of comments here just backed up my point that when Michael Gray complains about Google, he is actually doing a great job or promoting their guidelines to the SEM community. No offence Michael, but as much as I love reading you, your insights, following you on Twittier and most importantly learning from you, you’ve become their own pesonal high volume blowhorn. I would seriously take a look at that and ask yourself if that’s what you want to be.

from sza 284 Days ago #

Votes: 2

I think the outrageous part is not the "SEOs vs Kawasaki/Techcrunch" contrast, because SEOs as a group are indeed high risk to Google.It’s "ordinary webmasters vs the Kawasaki/Techcrunch-kind" where Google’s (and Matt Cutts’) integrity is broken.Techcrunch gets walked up to by the Google spam czar himself, who then asks about intent and believes the answer. Ordinary webmasters get their intent devised for them by Google (thank you!), no questions asked, no equal treatment provided.

from mlgoforth 284 Days ago #

Votes: 0

Google can’t know intent for all websites. Either paid links should be no followed for all or not. This wierd middle mush ground is not working. I want the best sites to appear for my search, but how do I get that if Google treats some paid links as bad if not no followed and others as okay if not followed? Some get to game Google intentional or not. Gaming is gaming intended or not.