Calendar
Network
Feeds
- 36
- Sphinn It!
Went Hot: November 8, 2007 - 2:50 pm
Posted By: NickWilsdon 607 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://www.e3auction.com)
Category: Domaining
While this is easy enough if you set up your own domain availability tool, these accusations are being leveled at some of the best known Registrars in the industry.
ICANN is now set to investigate this phenomenon, which they have termed "Domain name front running" to prevent the "perception from evolving to accepted wisdom.".
15 Comments
Comments
I've seen it happen. Did a domain search wrote it down, went home to get my credit card and it was registered in less than 20 minutes times. Always bothered by that, but never any proof.
I had that happen as well about .... oh, a year or two ago now. A local artist we were helping out with their website did a search for a domain she wanted (we weren't physically present), and when we went to set it up 3 days later it was already registered. I'd heard about domain kiting recently at that point, so we waited 2 more days and sure enough it was available again after that. That was my first experience with it. Afterward I never ever do any new domain searches except directly (whois protocol) or covertly (using a search engine). Mostly "covertly" though as there are several of these new registers I don't trust in the slightlest. Generally though, if there's a domain I have in mind, I don't mention it to anyone, and when I'm ready to buy it, I do so immediately these days.
All this reminds me of Google's data privacy issues actually. Wouldn't it make marketing sense for Registrars to come out and declare that their lookup tools 'safe'.
Of course that isn't the top of the chain. Only two weeks ago Frank Michlick suggested that ICANN were planning to sell off this lookup data themselves.
http://www.domainnamenews.com/editorial/verisign-to-profit-from-rootserver-data/889
Who will regulate the regulators?
Never happened to me personally, but worrying news all the same.
Either the systems of the registrars or the registrars themselves have no integrity.
I'm sure it does happen, but there isn't necessarily evil in each of the described instanced...if you have a hot idea for a domain name, there is a decent shot that someone else also has the same hot idea.
I generally use a registrar that allows me a 5 day grace period so I can lock down the domain first and use the 5 days to evaluate whether my choice is good or not. Of course, I "taste" in singular names, not in bulk:.)
It's true this could be coincidence. As you and me both know Todd, rumours about domain lookup data being accessed have been around for years. The two key differences here though seem to be (a) it's not just being reported at small time sites/tools and (b) the number of people complaining. It certainly has ICANN worried enough to launch this investigation.
I don't know if the lookup/purchase data they hold can get to the bottom of this but it will be interesting to see what they come out with or whether this is just a PR exercise. Might tell us a thing or two about the data ICANN hold themselves.
I like the idea of tasting singular domains but the margins on domains are so small for most domain resellers that few can afford to offer it. The bit that bugs me about this though, is that if there is a leak at the top, it's abusing the customers and trust of all the domain resellers down the chain.
I guess there might be some unscrupulous hosts around who do this, but I wouldn't have thought the majority would do it. I did a little research for a blog posting on this topic the other day actually, and came across this article - http://indyblogs.typepad.com/independent/2007/10/front-runners.html - from the Independent (a UK newspaper). The guy does a good job of explaining how the sheer number of domains involved would make it difficult for snatchers to pick out the good ones.
@johnmcga
I don't think Dickie Armour is so informed on the current state of automated domaining:
""Can you imagine how many queries are typed in at FreeParking or 123-Reg every day?" he mused. "Of all those thousands of queries, someone would have to be scanning them, then think yes, that one's good, and then going to the trouble of registering it. But what use could that name be to them? There's no way of finding the person who searched for that name, so it's not as if you can sell it back to them. It would represent an enormous amount of messing about for minimal reward.""
Well first, of course no one is looking through these domains manually. I've personally built a system that can scan 50'000 domains/day, rating them according to my own criteria and API results. These can then be automatically registered when they achieve a certain ranking. With a client/server infrastructure that capacity could be increased 10-fold or more. I'm sure we're not the only ones.
The problem you get is with source data. That is where a supply of lookup data would be invaluable. You could also tweak the system to see when a new phrase became popular, letting you register all the common variations. This is the stuff computers were made for.
Lastly, you don't need to approach people to resell the domain they wanted. That's not how it works, they come to you. Usually through the WHOIS data or the parking page. The new owner just hits them with a standard fee. If they don't want to buy it's still ok, as they (should have) selected the domain for it's revenue or investment potential.
Thanks Nick, you've done an excellent job of destroying my rosy view of domain name registration! I completely take your points though - what you say makes perfect sense (if I were a code wizard I might try and rank domain names by comparing them with the most commonly searched for terms on Overture). So what about the really big question - we know if can be done, but how many domain registration companies actually indulge in this shady practice?
I've thought about it for years. There have been MORE than 20 times since 1993, using whatever process-of-the-day to search available domains, when somthing was magicly GONE...soon after I searched....where it had previously been available for months, weeks, or years.
>I might try and rank domain names by comparing them with the most commonly searched for terms on Overture
Exactly. It's all about finding those data sources and setting up your own rules for registration or deletion. Then you just let the machines run.
We already know that companies have these systems as an estimated 90% of .COM registrations are now 'tasted' each month. Jay at DomainTools recorded the largest ever domain tasting day in August - with 99% of the 8m transactions involved in the practice.
http://blog.domaintools.com/2007/08/biggest-domain-tasting-day-ever/
There's no way they could be doing this manually. They would have a system much as I describe above, but also automatically host and generate the landing pages. If the domain generates enough visitors or clicks they keep it otherwise it is returned for a refund. You take the 5-day results and turn them into a year forecast to see if the domain will make you money. This is the reason you should never visit a site which is unavailable, the tasting company may release it after a week if they don't get a result.
I don't think the registration companies or Registrars are doing this themselves but you see the temptation here to sell your data to the people who are. It's a definite possibility that domain research tools are created for this purpose.
had this happen to me at godaddy more than once. now i do research at networksolutions until im ready to buy.
happened to me at godaddy with a domibot
i read up on it and followed the suggested instructions (dont visit the site for 15 days and the bot will drop the name due to lack of interest)
it worked. as soon as i saw it was dropped i swiped it up asap.
i was about to lose my mind those 15 days. i really really wanted that name
@corey and directandy
It will be interesting to see if ICANN can officially name offenders but that isn't the first time I've heard GoDaddy mentioned in relation to this topic.
ICANN have also asked people to suggest policies to stop this practice. As I wrote in the article, I think it would be a good first step to have a clause on lookup data in the privacy page of any Registrar, reseller or domain tool. If anyone else has ideas though let me know here, I'll push them in the mailing lists I'm on.
This happened to me LAST WEEK!!! Not sure how, or why, just yet. But, it really, really pissed me off. My monitor did not suffer a beating though.
Here's ths situation. I live in a small Idaho town, less than 50K people. I had a client that wanted a few domains purchased. We'll say for shoes (instead of giving out the real KW/target).
Anyways, I searched for shoes in Idahoshoes, pocatelloshoes, shoesinpocatello, etc... I spoke with my client a day after and he decided he wanted all the domains I quoted since they were all available. Then, two days later, ALL THREE were purchased. By a company in China! WTF??? Let me say W T F again? In China? I really doubt they have anything to do with shoes in Idaho, let alone a small town in Idaho.
Just sharing my experience. This happened to me before with Disc Golf a few months back, but not this obvious. Thank you for the article and heads up, hopefully this will stop, or help.
Good weekend to all!
Frank in Idaho