News Source: http://www.seobook.com
Published: Jan 05, 2008 - 01:40 pm
Story Found By: Kalena 1601 Days ago
Category: SEM
21 Comments
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News Source: http://www.seobook.com
Published: Jan 05, 2008 - 01:40 pm
Story Found By: Kalena 1601 Days ago
Category: SEM
21 Comments
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Comments
Ron Jones has now officially made it to a new category of my SU page "internet poopoo head"
Aaron’s bullcrap radar may be on high alert. Hopefully people will read the articles and come away with what Jill said, that he was saying books alone won’t do it. However, books offer tremendous value and support, esp. when it comes to helping to understand why things are done, establishing processes and understanding mechanics.Aaron, Jill and Dan Thies and Mike Grehan all contributed to the industry by putting info in book form. Schools and courses came later.
I Sphunn this because it seemed the conversation would be interesting & not to take a position.
Jill and Kim: Right on the money. Search Engine Watch Expert Ron Jones wrote three posts (SEM.edu) on the question of whether SEO can be learned from a book. All my bloggers have the right to express their own opinions. Readers are welcome to join the conversation. So welcome, Kalena, if you’ve read Ron’s work.Kalena: Ron is not a tutor. That’s the term you use for yourself at SearchEngineCollege, no? Ron wrote a chapter in the SEMPO Institute curriculum, as his bio clearly states. I’ve stated publicly that Search Engine Watch will now be a platform for new voices, as well as established SEOs and consultants. SEMPO? I’ve never been a member. But I’ve never been scummed or scammed by SEMPO.Leadership of the industry requires taking a stand, so I’ll look for the industry leaders to step up on this issue. So far, Jill and Kim have. Others?
I will step up and say that you cannot learn all of SEO from a book. You can learn the basic fundementals of SEO to get you started in a direction. You might choose the wrong direction and get distracted by what you read, since you probalby will not be reading from just one book. If you read Search Engine Opitimization with PHP by Jamie Sirovich and Cristian Darie you will come across chapters that refer to cloaking and blackhat techniques. As we know to play by the rules and think long term, you will not want to take up on that direction of SEO. You learn the very basic’s of some of the techniques, but you do not learn everything. So to say that you can learn everything about SEO from reading a book is just a load of crap. Sure you can learn how to cook by reading cook books, but you will not be nearly as good as someone else who has practiced and actually worked in the industry to test out different cooking techniques. The same goes for SEO, a book will only take you so far, and to be competitive that is not far enough.
@ Kevin - I think there’s been some confusion on my part. After reading Aaron’s post, I assumed that Ron’s articles specifically mentioned SEOBook. I admit I only scanned Ron’s articles - I guess I should’ve read a bit more carefully. I do agree that SEO can’t be learned solely from a book. But Aaron’s post really had me thinking that Ron targeted him specifically. If he didn’t, well that changes things. That will teach me for surfing after midnight! I made a post on Aaron’s site too, I’ll go and post an update. Thanks for clarifying this point Jill, Kim and Kevin.I wasn’t sure what SEMPO calls their teaching staff or lesson authors but "author" didn’t seem accurate so I used the term we use at SEC - tutor.
Just re-read Ron’s posts and he had linked to Mike Grehan’s book in his first one - I had it in my head that he was linking to SEOBook instead as it had been a while since I’d read Ron’s post. I read Aaron’s post last night, put 2 and 2 together and got 5. My mistake.
Very cool Kalena. That is a high quality adjustment.
<font size="3">Let me jump in here, as the author of the post in question, to contribute a quote from the 2nd part of my 3 part SEM.edu column: </font><font size="3">"I’d like to point out that we’re not slamming the SEO book business; there are myriad colleagues out there who’ve poured their souls into books that will bring you the basics of SEO. So, if you’re just starting out on the SEO train, picking up one of those books might help get you started." </font><font size="3">That is to say that pioneers like Aaron have contributed much to this industry buy compiling their knowledge and experience into a book form. But does the learning end there? The point of my column is to provide "more" resources that help search marketers continue their learning in this ever changing industry. I am interested in what everyone else thinks? Where do you go to gain knowledge and to keep up with your SEO learning?Kevin, thanks for the clarification on my role at SEMPO. I am just one of many knowledgeable and experience authors of the SEMPO Institute courses. SEMPO is an incredible organization that has done much for this industry and the Institute has helped many search marketers gain a solid SEO knowledge foundation in which to further their careers.</font>
Thanks Marty
@Kalena -- no worries. I appreciate your update here and at SEO Book in the comments section. As Marty said, Very cool. Get in touch with Ron and update him on the latest at SEC. I’m sure all our readers would love to hear all the great things you’ve been doing. btw -- I agree with Marty. Very cool update.
@ Kevin - thanks. By the way, your Sphinn profile link doesn’t work?
Where do you go to gain knowledge and to keep up with your SEO learning?</bockquote>Here are some:At least 800 or so feeds from blogs produced by Internet marketers, search engines, technology writers, lawyers, computer scientists, information retrieval practitioners, black hat, white hat, hard hat (I really hate the hat distinctions, and think that the industry would grow a good deal if people eliminated the false dichotomy from their vocabulary, and started talking in terms of professionalism, liability, responsibility, and risk instead, especially those who profess to educate). Discussions on forums, in blog comments, by email, by IM, in hallways and lunchrooms during conferences and seminars. Nothing against SEO Chat, but there are many other forums that provide the opportunity for intelligent discussion, and meaningful interactions.Whitepapers from search engine employees, academics, information architects, usability consultants, analytics practioners. Cite Seer and Google Scholar can be pretty good places to learn about SEO. So can the World Wide Web Conterences, the Special Interest Group on Information Retreival, the Computer/Human Interaction Conferences, and many others.Meetups with SEOs in three or four surrounding states.Experience and experiments with non-mission critical sites (one of the best ways to learn about SEO is by doing, and doing again, and then some more).Experience with client sites (learn from everything you do).Analysis of many other sites, serps, vertical results, search guidelines, internet archive listings, financial statments, press releases.Not sure that I really ever got much about SEO from Techdirt, C/Net, or Boing Boing (serious suggestion there, Ron? Fine publications, but filtered and polished for mass consumption. Come on.), though I do think that the Corey Doctorow article on metadata from seven or eight years ago (Metacrap: Putting the torch to seven straw-men of the meta-utopia) should be required reading by anyone learning to do SEO, if for no other reason than to set them straight about the lack of importance of meta data.An SEO Book, the Site Point Book on SEO, Mike’s Book - all good resources. I wouldn’t rely upon them alone, and I agree with many commentators that the best place to learn about the web is on the Web. I wouldn’t rely solely upon a class either. A book, a class, experimentation, collaboration, conversation -- learning SEO really starts with developing the ability to think critically regardless of whether the information you’re considering is printed, published online, spoken on a stage, or whispered in your ear. The title of the article is "SEO.edu: Can You Learn SEO From a Book?" It’s not, can you learn SEO solely from a book. Sure you can learn SEO from a book. And you can learn about driving from a book, and flying, and law. But that alone isn’t going to make you a safe driver, an experienced pilot, or a skillful litigator. Sort of a tempest in a teapot here, no?<font face="Courier New"></font>
Sheesh - What HE said
Well I’m with Bill’s sentiment that it’s all a tempest in a teapot. So no Sphinn for this one. But how can I best indicate that. I’m missing a button. :(
LOL@Kimberly@ Bill - Nice info. I recall a popular thread about this very subject on cre8asite forums.
No matter how many books you read about playing piano, it will never make you play like Horowitz. It’s like reading about riding a bike is a total waste of time. Just get on a damn bike and ride. It’s not hard.
@ Bill - great info. You have touched on some topics that will come out in up coming articles on SEM.edu. Thanks for the feedback.
Jill - The articles were read, all 4 of them. So much for making mistakes, is that not allowed here by you or any other mod? Ever think that maybe I misinterpretted the message being sent? No, I didn’t think so, instead you come out with that kind of comment. Steve
There is one essential point not being made here and that is different learning styles. See Widipedia <font color="#800080">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles</font>. I am a Kinesthetic and Tactile learner and I could never learn from a book. It would simply not work for me. If I cannot do it I cannot learn it. When I first started in the industry there were conferences and books. I learned some at the conferences and nothing from books. I have others on the team who learned from books, forums, blogs and Jill our chief strategist still visits your forum daily. As the industry expanded the pool of people who could learn from a book disappeared and I found it impossible to grow our business using books, blogs and forums. I became involved in the SEMPO Institute because of my keen interest in the whole training issue. There are multiple resources out there as Bill pointed out and it is important to understand what works for each individual you are trying to bring up to speed including yourself. There are some great tests you can give your staff to ensure your put the correct training together for them and ensure that they do not fail. As the industry grows its important to remember that you need diversity in teams to create the synergy needed for success but beware of expecting to train them all the same way. My personal preference would be to have access to good quality classroom training for all staff. In a classroom you can gauge the learning styles and ensure you cater to each one to ensure learning points are understood. You have one person in the front of the room hanging on your every word and another at the back asleep. That is easy to solve face to face not so easy to solve if you give the auditory learner a book to read. We need multiple disciplines and resources and more importantly if we are involed in training that we we are raising the bar for the industry and providing the quality of training that will ensure the next generation of search marketers do not scam Aaron’s wife :)
I feel that it is very ironic that the very first comment after this article was Sphinned was about as childish as the original post by Aaron. internet poopoo head sheesh. Oh and lets throw in some comments both here and at seobook to make sure others are aware of your own articles on the subject or your own course or domain offering, vultures. Tempest in a teapot - Classic as ever by Bill.I have to admit just calling aussie in a rage when I first read the comments including his at the seobook post. I have been deeply involved in SEMPO over the past years and I know that many people, including Ron, have made plenty of serious contributions both to the industry as a whole and to SEM education. These are international business men and women that have many other things to do, such as helping clients, and rarely participate as much as they used to in the online community. Just because they dont post at Sphinn or other forums and blogs does not mean they dont understand SEO deeply and currently. It saddens me sometimes that I cannot take the time to write as often as I once did, but I take solace in the fact that I am helping to promote a greater understanding and respect for the Search industry by my participation in SEMPO.In short, the industry and SEMPO have grown up over the past four years, yet I fear the same can’t be said for Aaron. Please note that this is my personal opinion and that I may in fact get in trouble for posting it, but I feel it needed to be said.