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Went Hot: January 26, 2008 - 6:07 am
Posted By: DoshDosh 182 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://andybeard.eu)
Category: Other Online Marketing
19 Comments
Went Hot: January 26, 2008 - 6:07 am
Posted By: DoshDosh 182 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://andybeard.eu)
Category: Other Online Marketing
19 Comments
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Comments
I am not sure if this is a perfect category match for this, though there will be some programming work for someone, in fact Michael VanDeMar has already offered some help on some of the more technical stuff if required.
It could be looked on as a product for sale, or a collective undertaking.
I am also wondering how many people are going to come up with spoilers or guesses as to how I came up with my top post of 2007 from back in February when I only had a couple of hundred subscribers.
Hey Andy... didn't quite know where to put it... if you want me to change it, just send me a private message me or something. :)
No worries Maki - the content itself could be looked on as analytics, or a different way to monetize your blog once you have gained (real or not) a certain level of "authority", or just a comment on what content is appropriate to publish.
I've changed the topic title to make it less of an advert, although the linked page itself is a concern to me. This is like Aaron linking to his pre-sell page for SEO Book, or any other SEO trying to make their consultancy page go Hot. I think it only went Hot as DoshDosh submitted it.
Currently under consideration by the Sphinn Team.
I agree with Rob. I have great respect for Andy and DoshDosh but I considered the post borderline spam.
Marked as spam until moderator review.
OK, given Andy's concern over this story, I'm pushing it back out from being pulled, so that those who wish to discuss it and comments can see directly what was on it.
FYI, original headline was:
Andy Beard is Available for Hire: Exclusive Content For Membership Sites and Agencies
My comments look a little blunt here, mostly as they were meant as a log for other mods. After another Sphinn Admin and two members agreeing with my concerns, the story was taken down.
The submission to Sphinn itself was not considered spam, just the story (from my point of view) inappropriate. Marking a story as "spam" simply prevents the story from being accessed by members until a moderator/admin decision is made on it.
The blog/content owner is free to approach moderators via the Contact Us page about any of our decisions.
"Marking a story as "spam" simply prevents the story from being accessed by members"
Oh, that's wonderful. There's all kind of debate and concern about putting a "bury" button up, because it might hurt some feelings... but you blow off what is essentially the industry equivalent of calling someone a slut or a whore as "it's just a flag, no big deal guys"?
What f'ing ever.
Look, I know how hard it is to be a moderator. It's a thankless job, to be sure. But I've seen a lot worse "spam" go through here than this (and no, I'm not calling this spam), so I think there may have been some oopsies that happened with this one. On the other hand, moderators make mistakes and generally, they are beaten up badly when they do, but they are never praised for all the good decisions they make. So, while I may personally think this decision was an oopsie, I don't think the mods should be beaten up just yet. Make bad decisions 100 times in the next 100 days, and a beating may be fair. But that hasn't happened yet, so I think it should be used as a learning experience.
What now? Danny and the mods firm up some things and try to apply those rules evenly and fairly as much as possible. I think that's all anyone should ask.
"What f'ing ever."
Uh oh, here comes the "Sphinn is not the government" posts.
Maybe its just a matter of providing a better forum for communication with Danny and the mods than the 'contact us' button, or via the comments of the posts. Personally, I wouldn't feel free to contact Danny if I had an issue, cause I don't know him from Adam. I mean I know his stuff, but he's never really taken the time to open any lines of communication with me, and I've tried on a few occassions (though granted sphinn messages don't seem to really work for me).
In the end, communication is a 2-way street. I can't travel on a road, unless I know its open for travel. Maybe Danny ... you could be more proactive in communicating with us, and opening those channels. As it currently exists, you're the highway authority. Sure you've said the road is open, but like I said, it seems like its only open for emergencies or certain vehicles.
I'm not casting blame ... just saying lets use this as a learning experience, and improve the process. Mistakes happen ... its only truly a mistake if we don't learn from it.
Hi Jeff, just to let you know that the contact page actually puts you in touch with the whole Sphinn team rather than just Danny. Depending on the subject matter you select on the form, your email will either get sent to all Admins (Me, Danny and Michelle) or all Mods and Admins.
As Editor of Sphinn, I answer most questions submitted through the form unless of a technical/bug nature. Although Danny owns Sphinn as a co-founder of Third Door Media, he relies on me to manage the administration and day-to-day running of the site and Michelle for coding, technical enhancements and bug fixing. As I joined Sphinn relatively late (previously managing SEW Forums), I understand why some people are still not familiar with my role at Sphinn. Further information on Sphinn's structure can be found on the Staff page.
Although I do not think that we've met before in person either, I am still here to help and assist you with the support of our Moderator Team. If you wish to discuss a matter with us away from public, this is our communication channel - whether an emergency or just for some help/clarification/advice.
We welcome any and all suggestions for improving communication channels between Sphinn and its members.
Donna, my point wasn't on the mistake, it was about the putting on the nonchalant attitude and justifications afterwards, instead of a simple, "our bad, sorry".
Danny, you stated this in a comment elsewhere:
Coming from someone who just went through all those unpleasant accusations from the entire community (the Wired fiasco), and spending days trying to defend the "I'm not promoting spam" position, I would honestly think you would be a little more sensitive when your staff calls another highly respected member of the industry a spammer. Maybe that's just me though.
I mean, you seemed to take the label personally when it was applied to you.
Michael, I think you may have misunderstood my comments.
A Sphinn member marking a story as spam, is someone saying that they think the story is spam. An Admin/Moderator does the same, although also uses the functionality to place a story in a holding queue. This queue does not apply any penalties to either the Sphinn member or the story, it simply gives our team time to agree on the best course of action.
No matter how many guidelines we create, not all decisions are clear-cut, and in this case, I wanted to consult our team of moderators before allowing/dissallowing it.
@mvandemar, what Rob said but to even further clarify. When he commented above:
"Marked as spam until moderator review."
That was never put in the public comments. Got it? It was posted after the story was pulled, and only mods saw it.
No one on the mod team called Andy's article, or the submission, spam to the general Sphinn membership. Instead, as Rob said, there was a member spam report and some mods raised an issue with it. The article was pulled into our backroom Spam Jail area, where a decision is made on whether to keep it. He was telling the other mods the situation with the story. The spam comment (about it having a spam flag) wasn't public. Nada.
When Andy commented about being upset with a comment, he was upset with the earlier one, not the one that said it had a spam flag. Now, we could have pulled the backroom comment off, but you know, then I'd have people saying oh, you edited all the comments. Damned if you do or don't, right? I've got Andy suggesting there was something untoward going on with the comments in his post ("You won't be able to read this comment online, the story is still hidden in moderation"), so I figured put it out there, and you all can be the judges, should you feel that need.
As for being cavalier -- sure. That's why on a weekend, when I actually like to take a break from work and have a life beyond that, I take the time to read Andy's post and concerns -- comment to him and publicly that there was no wrong-doing in case anyone got that impression if they had seen the article briefly turn up and disappear, and talked more about the issues involved. Cavalier would have been saying something like, "What f'ing ever -- see ya."
@jeffquipp, I really don't know what else to do to say that communication is open beyond the second paragraph of the help page: "Contacting Us: Something broken or got an urgent matter or need human help? Use the contact page. "
But as Rob said, yes, anyone can and should feel free to contact us. And sorry if you used the Sphinn messaging and didn't get a response -- actually, the contact form would (and remains) much better for me. As for being proactive, tell me what you think we should be doing more. I mean, we regularly tell people of new features and additions and ask for feedback. I or Rob are constantly responding to concerns that are raised. If a story gets pulled, almost always someone gets a message about why unless it is just blatant flat out spam (I'll get the moderator for a day program going, and then more people who are dubious that we might do this to "good" stuff can see for themselves the fun of wiping out submissions for pest control, best outsourcing India and massage tips).
It is a learning experience, I agree. What I'd hope is that people with issues understand that not their problem is not necessarily part of some uber plan to craft some time of agenda or statement across the site. If you have a problem, occasionally you might find it can be solved by contacting people directly rather than having to waste a lot of time making assumptions that have to be responded to. If you've got a gripe that you don't think has been dealt with after asking a bit about it, then by all means go to the Sphinn community and raise it.
Wrong actually. It was in the global comments page, where Andy took a screen shot of it. Not all of it, but enough to be incriminating.
You think it would matter if it was something no one could see...? Maybe you should revisit Andy's post and look at the screen shot, see what it was the community was in fact able to view.
So... keeping in mind that it was actually a public comment, does that make a difference in how you view it?
It wasn't in the public comments. Go back, look at the screenshot. It's Rob's first comment, not his second one that happened when it moved to the backroom.
And yes, I already explained what the spam reference mean in the backroom above, and in the other thread, I've also apologized for any hurt feelings or perceptions Andy or anyone might have gotten from the story being pulled at all.
Can I also suggest that debates on whether this should have been pulled be moved over to here, where Andy raised the issue in the first place?