Sphinn - Does SEO have an image problem?

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Does SEO have an image problem?

Went Hot: January 25, 2008 - 2:50 am
Posted By: Lodispoto 528 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://www.huomah.com)
Category: Search Marketing

Does SEO have an image problem? Of course and everyone knows it. David tells it like it is as usual.

17 Comments

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from theGypsy 528 days ago #

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Well, the entire debate is kind of interesting. If you take away the '95% Statement' it does begin to point to a deeper issue in the biz.

from waveshoppe 528 days ago #

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While I am not a search guy, from the perspective of a business owner, the SEO community appears to be tripping all over each other and losing creditability fast. Maybe we need some new role models.

from Jill 527 days ago #

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This debate, if you wanna call it that, is as old as SEO itself. Quite frankly, it's getting boring.

Yeah many SEOs suck. Who cares?

Just don't suck and you won't have to be in the 95% who do.

from theGypsy 527 days ago #

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yup...it sure is Jill, does that speak volumes or what? As I said in the post the general drama goes unnoticed. It was actually some younger SEOs that I chat with that made me think twice about not giving a rats ass as usual....

I am 42 and it is interesting to look at the industry not only from the eyes of the business community, but from those of a young SEO watching the circus from the outside :)

..as much as I try to stay well away, once in a while it doesn't hurt to revisit an issue.

from EstebanPanzera 527 days ago #

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Yep, the problem is too many self-called SEO Experts when they just know crap about it.

from IncrediBILL 527 days ago #

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It's not just SEO, it's the whole web industry.

Web designers that can't design their way out of a wet paper bag, programmers that don't know their IF from their ELSE, server administrators that couldn't secure a tire to a car, and so on and so forth.

SEO is just another technical field where incompetent people try to make a buck and in a wholly unregulated industry the entire web is just one big fat hairy CAVEAT EMPTOR in general.

from SEOhack 526 days ago #

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I'm with Jill.

nobody likes laywers and you dont' hear them fretting about it (maybe they do, but who knows and who cares?). Same with car salesmen. Same with other, traditional advertising and marketing people. Nobody likes any of those people either. Holler all you want about it, but at the end of the day, there's gonna' be somebody who's ready to stick a knife in your eye because you're an SEO or SEM. The more people get online, the more you're gonna' see it. IMO we all need to just suck it up and deal.

from Jill 526 days ago #

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I know there are a lot of SEO experts that are dishonest and slimy

No there aren't. By the very nature of them being an SEO expert, they would not be dishonest or slimy. There are SEO scammers, SEO idiots, SEO incompetents, etc. who are dishonest and slimy, however.

from TimDineen 526 days ago #

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@Jill, gotta disagree with you on that one. I guess it depends on how you, or @yojspew, defines the term "expert" - I'd think that label should go to people who have experience and proven successful track records, but often such people aren't publicly visible.

Instead, the people who are perceived to be experts in this industry are the those who blog often, create controversy, are chosen as speakers at conferences, are chosen as moderators on sites like Sphinn, etc... and amonst those groups of annointed "experts" there are plenty who I'd say have high scam/slime/cheat quotients.

from Jill 526 days ago #

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Really? Which moderators on Sphinn are you talking about? I'm sure Danny would be interested in knowing this info!

from charlieanzman 526 days ago #

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The real issue here is established SEO people (both visible and in0house, or invisible) and the newer social networking crowd, some of whom have 'crossed-over'.

While there are MANY quality 'social bookmarkers', others are selling 'air'. There are certainly a lot of SEO companies (most, newer on the scene) that are ripping people off as well. This destroys the integrity of an entire industry.

I hope we can keep the the dialog alive but keep the energy positive (and not negative!) and realize that there are 'snake oil salespeople' in every business.

As far as the Sphinn moderators, I have to agree with Jill. These people have more than proven their knowledge and professionalism. That was completely out of line.

from organicapex 526 days ago #

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There are some major issues which are plaguing the SEO industry as a whole.

1. A number of companies indulge in black hat in order to pump in rankings either knowingly or unknowingly and eventually make the client lose faith.

2. A number of firms DO NOT provide value for money and do not own up to their mistakes.

3. Some companies have no idea what they are doing or what they should be doing.

So, in fact - There is no norm to determine a good SEO - You have to just go by word of mouth or recommendations as a customer and that's one issue people should be addresing.

from IncrediBILL 526 days ago # - show/hide this comment

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@Jill - just because you're an expert doesn't make you honest

I'm sure the CEO of Enron was an expert at running large companies.

from TimDineen 526 days ago #

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It would be out of order to turn this discussion into a finger-pointing episode of who I think are good or bad (or slimy) for the industry. I've just spent about an hour or two reading posts and commentary all around Sphinn here about some topics I hadn't bothered with earlier in the week and most of it was finger-pointing and name-calling... I'm sorry to have caused this discussion to turn in that direction too...

So I'll try to use this issue to point to a reason why one of the ideas from the original post we are discussing just can't work - namely that of selecting a governing body or set of standards: None of us can even agree who the experts are so how can there be any consensus on what techniques are best/acceptable, etc.

Personally, I've already asked "So What?" on this issue - I don't care about any SEO image problem. But if we are going to talk about ways to improve that image one of the best places to start would be by more carefully selecting those we promote to expert status better. Ideally we'd pick a few folks who don't themselves promote and encourage shady techniques and are less likely to crap on us by saying 95% are incompetant.

from Jill 526 days ago #

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As far as the Sphinn moderators, I have to agree with Jill. These people have more than proven their knowledge and professionalism. That was completely out of line.

I wasn't saying that the mods here are knowledgeable or not knowledgeable. I don't even know who most the mods are because I haven't checked. I simply found it curious that Tim was specifically mentioning that there were perhaps some moderators here who aren't on the up-and-up and was interested in knowing more.

But yes, it's probably not necessary to continue along those lines in this thread. Tim, feel free to email me with your thoughts on who's good and who's bad ;)

from WebmasterT 522 days ago #

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"No there aren't. By the very nature of them being an SEO expert, they would not be dishonest or slimy."

Hmmm, can't agree with that Jill. I know one slimy expert but have more class than to out them unless someone asks aboout them at SeoPros. Then I don't say they are slimy only that I wouldn't recommend their services. Those are more traits of a personality then a trait of an expert but I do agree that slimy or dishonest would be the exception to the rule not the case where experts are concerned. That goes for the industry as a whole. However, coming from an industry that did kill itself (telmarketers) I can tell you that a few can kill it for everyone if it looks like nothing is being done about it.

Besides, whose an expert? Likely not the person calling themselves one. Once you stop learning or think you know it, then... the leaning stopsl Expert is a very widely used term in this community and at times it has 0 to do with what they know!

from johnandrews 522 days ago #

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Slimy and scammy are different, and there are SEO experts qualified for both of those labels in my personal experience (and yes, I can prove it but I won't). No different than other fields, but mediocrity shouldn't be the target for the SEO field.

I would never offer that "fact" unprompted but when someone says by definition an expert is not dishonest or scammy I have to speak up. I big part of the problem with SEO is the working assumption that if you're IN then you're good, and can stay IN. bzzzzzzzt... wrong answer, but I can see how it works for you and yours.

The best part about slimy or dishonest or just plain BAD is that it stinks more and more as time goes by.... harder and harder to cover up. If nothing else we'll eventually vote for a GoldenWhatever Award and help those players retire. In the mean time, it is really up to them how they and their cronies handle crticism.