- 43
- Sphinn It!
Posted By: HamletBatista 176 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://smackdown.blogsblogsblogs.com)
Category: Sphinn Zone
29 Comments
29 Comments
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Comments
Nobody desphunn or reported the story as spam (including him), so I'd like to know what others think. I personally love constructive criticism. Should I listen to his critiques or move on and ignore his comments?
lol - that's why it's SOCIAL media... we the people get to decide. There are spam buttons and if they don't get used... it ain't SPAM IMO... tis the nature of a democratic media outlet. At least you were kind enough to go with the flame bait... weeee haaaa
Besides, ya know we love ya Hamlet, you could burp the alphabet on video and it would go hot (ha ha ha ha.... please don't... really...).
In the end it is more dialogue, which is always great. I say kudos to him for having some kahones and U for Sphinning it (not in cahoots right?). Unless you wrote the questions, it's not your problem in what you are asked about...
He, he, he. Thanks Dave. I agree. I met a lot of wonderful people at SMX and I felt like at home :-) It is great to be part of this community.
"Unless you wrote the questions, it's not your problem in what you are asked about... "
Hamlet - did you help write the questions? Was the interview scripted?
Not trying to be difficult here but it seems asking outright will put this all to rest one way or the other.
@Hamlet - great guns - what a way to manage online reputation, bring a critique to light by sphinning it yourself!
The story which would have passed away after a day or two on whats hot, has just been breathed to life again, I wonder how much more exposure this article will giv to your original interview?
Hamlet, first let me be clear, I wasn't offended by the article. It was primarily designed to promote your product, that was obvious to me. This is a community of marketers, and it is second nature to market things. Many of the articles we read on a daily basis are of a promotional nature, that's expected.
Nor did it bother me that it was done in that format. True, it irks me a little that so many people treated it as if it were something other than an ad, but that only bothered me because I like to think that in our little circle we compose an audience slightly higher than the least common denominator, which is what that ad format typically targets. I do realize though that just because they commented the way they did does not mean that they thought it was a genuine article, they could very well just been playing up the "live studio audience" role... it just didn't seem that way to me
You asked me in comments on my blog what should be your takeaway on my blog, and should you offer an apology or take down the article. My post wasn't a call to action. My intent in writing it was to raise awareness, not change policy or affect how one promotional piece is treated. The community did in fact vote the article hot here on Sphinn, and I didn't even see it till 5 days later. I was more interested in highlighting the fact that it appeared that the entire community, a group of people usually so inundated with marketing pitches that they generate a blind spot for them, ate up that piece as genuine, hook, line, and sinker.
"Hamlet - did you help write the questions? Was the interview scripted?"
Debra - I can say in all honesty that the interview and the questions were all Sean's idea. I simply responded to the questions he asked. I didn't suggest any specific questions nor the interview format.
I did ask Sean to include a disclaimer to make our business relationship crystal clear.
If you start asking me about my product or about what I've been doing for the past few years, I am sure you will feel like I am selling to you. I have put so much effort and money into creating something really valuable that I don't see why I would respond without highlighting my goals and the merits of my product.
I did ask Sean to include a disclaimer to make our business relationship crystal clear.
Hamlet, are you flat out claiming that this article was not part of any marketing campaign at all, that Sean was not acting in any sort of promotional capacity in writing this, and that neither him nor his firm received any type of compensation whatsoever for doing it?
Michael - As I said, I love criticism and you bring some interesting points.
First of all, the interview was not designed primarily to promote my product as you suggest. If you read the post carefully you will learn that SEOs are not my primary market, small business owners with no SEO skills are. Sphinn is mostly SEOs and search marketers.
A lot people don't know my background, haven't been to my country or don't even know why I write about advanced stuff. I believe that Sean's primary goal with the interview was to create awareness of what I've been doing and that has to include RankSense.
It seems that you missed another interview a while ago that also went hot. Tom Critchlow also asked me about RankSense and nobody complained.
Cheers
I have put so much effort and money into creating something really valuable that I don't see why I would respond without highlighting my goals and the merits of my product.
Yep, totally agree. As a link builder, I look for the angles in everything, all the time, almost to the point of distraction so I get where you're coming from with the article. It was a great piece/way to gain traction/links in our community for your new products even though we're not your target audience.
But Michael's article did make me pause which is why I asked the questions above. The "whys" and "how" the piece was written isn't as much a concern for me as the disclosure issue. I know Mr. Maguire stated he had worked for your firm in his byline but if he decided to break away from his hectic schedule and come down there on his own, without being paid to do an interview and for no other reason than to get a great interview with a fellow entreprenuer, then it's cool. It's an interview.
But if you all talked, planned the interview, discussed how to use this as a marketing tool for your company, paid his way either personally or through his company, etc... then it's a review. and should be labeled as such IMO.
Semantics? Maybe but I think it's only right to be clear about what's going on when so many people trust what they read.
Hamlet, you didn't actually answer my question in the second comment though.
"Hamlet, are you flat out claiming that this article was not part of any marketing campaign at all, that Sean was not acting in any sort of promotional capacity in writing this, and that neither him nor his firm received any type of compensation whatsoever for doing it?"
Michael - I hired Sean exclusively for help on our SMX presentation "The Future of SEO Automation" and some improvements I need to make to our business plan. He researched, created and delivered the presentation and based on the response he did an great job. As I said, I did not ask him for the interview and did not pay a dime for it.
Whether the interview was part of a marketing campaign, you need to ask Sean because he was not hired for that. I think it was fair enough to include the disclaimer.
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Poor Hamlet suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (while try to make one).
If it wasn't such brilliant marketing I could almost feel sorry for you.
So does it matter that it reads like an infomercial, that the author got a free vacation for his effort, that he worked for you in the past (and probably wants to again)? Probably not.
Does it really add much to the "hot" discussion of SEO automation. Probably not.
Does anybody outside this little teapot really care about this little tempest? No!
I did not ask him for the interview and did not pay a dime for it.
Well that settles that! Thanks Hamlet.
to be honest, I find theGypsy's comments a bit disturbing:
How is that a good thing? on the one hand you say it's not spam because people didn't vote it as such but in the next sentence you say that even if it were completely useless, it would still go hot. Aren't you contradicting yourself?
Also, with the reaction to other people's promotional material (see here and here and especially here for examples) I think this illustrates a much deeper issue here at sphinn in regards to promotion and the biases of the community. It would certainly seem that some blatantly promotional material is allowed as long as the members here like you, and if not well then it's spam. To me that's a problem that needs to be addressed.
from_pops: LOL :-)
Thanks, Debra.
@skitzzo - It's not based solely on the community opinion though, just so you know. Andy's piece was already voted hot and on the front page when it was pulled. He is well liked. Mostly, anyways, not counting the occasional psychotic troll that wonders in now and again, of course. :)
@mvandemar yes but that was before we had the DeSphinn button. I get the feeling the mods are leaving these borderline decisions up the community now we have that function.
- as the notes from Rob seemed to indicate on your post?
Skitzzo - I think Dave was kidding. Please don't take it word for word :-)
As I said, my answers wil sound promotional because I am talking about my product. I can't help with that. You do bring an important point to the discussion. Is the Sphinn community really biased?
I think it was a great interview and I'm delighted that Michael did a great 'Smackdown' on it. For many of us, marketing, whether we acknowledge it or not, is a priority occupation. Marketing is about getting on to your prospects' radar screens and starting a dialogue. When the eventual psychic rewards are given out for this marketing activity, I think Michael should probably be the big winner.
The only reason for most of us being in social media is to be visible to others. That's not because we feel we have a particular insight that no one else in the world has. It's just because each of us is building up our 'brand' and want to be recognized. Congratulations, Michael, I've now subscribed to your News feed. Great marketing.
If anyone doubts any of this, consider what a problem Google has with paid links. That's an equally thorny problem, that has many similarities.
Mr. VandeMar,
As the author of the interview post in question, I thought I would take a few moments to respond to your concerns.First, I can understand your position in thinking that this was perhaps some sort of infomercial. Before I provide some background, I would like to be clear about two things - 1) I have a great deal of respect for Sphinn, SEOmoz and the SEO community at large, and 2) I despise all forms of spam.
That said, my background is in sales and marketing and I confess to loving a good success story. I also confess to having a warm affinity for Hamlet Batista as a kind, considerate and genuine human being and an admiration for him as a self-made successful business person. He is a class act if there ever was one.
I have been a frequent contributor at SEOmoz for some time now, as has been Hamlet. We are members and avid fans, of the SEOmoz community.
I had initially contacted Hamlet with the idea of interviewing him and over the course of our discussion and his learning more of my background, he suggested he could use my assistance at the SMX West conference. As such, he invited me to visit with him in Santo Domingo to learn more about the company and its product in preparation of the SMX West presentation. I also spent the weekend at his home, during which time I conducted the interview.When I submitted the article to Youmoz, I wanted to be sure I would in no way be accused of misleading the SEOmoz community. Therefore, I added a disclaimer at the bottom of the article mentioninng that I had provided consulting services to NEMedia.
I prepared a great deal for this interview, thoroughly researching the current state of SEO automation, and came to the conclusion primarily based on a rash of blog posts and flood of comments (both positive and negative), that were published around the September 2007 timeframe, that SEO automation was somewhat of a heated topic for a variety of reasons.
This included posts by Loren Baker @ Search Engine Journal, Lisa Barone @ Bruce Clay, Inc., Gabriel Goldenberg @ SEOROI and others. The Lisa Barone article in particular was quite colorful in opposition. A good read. I have 32 reference articles and papers in total. That is where I came to the conclusion that this was a bit of a heated topic.
Although I consider myself a fairly knowledgeable SEO, admittedly, relative to folks like yourself, Hamlet and other industry veterans, I do not possess the depth of understanding of the intricacies of the SEO process. What I do know however, from both practicing SEO and reading voraciously on the topic, is that this is a very nascent and fragmented industry, where individual practitioners abound. This type of environment, from my perspective, makes it ripe for various degrees of automation. To me, that created a natural slant for the interview. Coupled with the fact that RankSense was going to be announced at SMXWest, I also thought it was timely. More than anything, I thought it would make for a good quality Youmoz post.
SEOmoz has a category topic SEO Tools, under which I published this article. Although for me the article was really more about letting the SEOmoz community get to better know this man and his success story, I felt that because of where the conversation went specifically to the topic of SEO automation and ultimately to RankSense, it would be best to post under that category.
I have always been fascinated with the application of technology in the efforts to streamline processes and methodologies of product and service delivery. Prior to starting my practice, I ran the global sales and marketing for a $2 billion contract manufacturer. Supply chain automation was my specialty.
Candidly, I felt it was more an article for the SEOmoz community as opposed to the SEO community at large. However, one of the SEOmoz members, Calamier, took the action of posting it to Sphinn. I think it was his first Sphinn. Somewhat to my surprise, it went hot. I suspect that is mostly because of the respect Hamlet has earned in the SEO community.
To your questions about payment and marketing campaign - first, I can state categorically and without fear of contradiction that I was not paid for writing the article. I have a thriving business practice that is difficult to keep up with. I suspect that writing articles for money does not pay that well. They take so damn long to write (for me anyway). I do not even blog yet, other than my modest entries at SEOmoz (Youmoz). I do it for fun. Even in the case of consulting with NEMedia, working with this type of business was a bit of a departure from my typical customer; however I was really interested in the idea Hamlet had, so I jumped at the opportunity.
As to marketing campaign, I absolutely am biased toward Hamlet and I certainly would like nothing more than to see him continue his path to success. However, I did not expect that a post on Youmoz would go much further than the community, which is not the primary target for RankSense anyway. This is about building a $50Million business over four or five years, not selling a handful of licenses to the individual SEO that hangs out at SEOmoz.
Probably more information than you wanted, but I do hope it effectively answers your concerns. Hamlet would be the last person in the world to brag on himself, but I was more than happy to highlight his successes. In closing, I hope that despite your consternation about the content, you enjoyed reading the article. I worked hard on it.
On a final note, if you ever get a personal invitation from Hamlet to stay at his golf villa in Casa de Campo, I highly suggest jumping at it!
Kindest Regards,
Sean
Mr. VandeMar,
Just one other thing that I failed to mention. I actually enjoyed reading your smackdown, but I do take exception to one thing. You compared me to Don Lapre!!!! Ouch! C'mon now. That was totally uncalled for! As a matter of professional courtesy, any way I can get a retraction on that one statement? :) Please.
Best, Sean
Michael, great article, i've always admired your writing style.
Sean may not have intended it go beyond the SeoMoz realm, but I found it to be generally interesting and helpful. It is great to get some insight into the life of such a successful person who has shifted focus from his other successful ventures to focus on SEO. Unfortunately for you, the sphinn community agrees with me.
I respect your work, and I wish you luck in everything you do. I will close with a quote from Danny Sullivan on the sphinn "common sense guidelines" which I believe completely justifies this submission and it's front-page status :
After seeing MV's blog entry and reading the interview....It does seem like an ad to me....
I can see why Debra was motivated to ask the questions she asked.
If it smells like an ad...then I can see why Mike questioned its presence in sphinn subject to something that was deemed an ad being taken down.
I suppose its all in the eyes of the beholder.
Erm, this post is pretty lame. Sphinn has no financial bias, it is community driven. If you think I'm a "moron", that's fair enough - look forward to seeing you at the next conference.
All in all (as I explained in my email), if things aren't crystal - we let the community decide what's hot and what's not.
Sphinn is an ad platform for SMX (and advertisers), how can that not be monetary bias? Any relationships of Sphinn owners and other SEOs are indirect bias as well. Pretending not to understand or ignoring it doesn't show you as a good marketer, really.
"All in all (as I explained in my email), if things aren't crystal - we let the community decide what's hot and what's not."
That's right. And you remove Andy Beard's article after it was approved by the community (voted hot). Surely, that's moderating, not "letting the community decide what's hot and what's not".
@ANOnym
Again though. That happened *before* we had the DeSphinn function. As Rob indicated in those emails to Michael and on this site, they *can* now adopt a more hands off approach to controversial topics.
If Andy submitted that post today, IMO it wouldn't have got pulled.
I have to ask. Isn't the whole purpose for Corporate Execs agreeing to be interviewed to discuss their products or services? If anyone is upset at the piece that was written as it was, I'd have to ask; would you take up such an opportunity if given the chance? (if you understand marketing, media, branding, and positioning the answer should be yes). As far as how it was promoted via Sphinn, I think (as others have pointed out) the community has decided that it was ok. It is an informative piece on a software that we all would have at least an interest with as it (potentially) pertains to our industry and how we do our jobs.
On the other hand, if I wrote an "article" or a review of the product, I don't think that would be appropriate and I am sure the community would agree.... via the desphinn button.
I found nothing offensive in the interview. In fact I thought it was very detailed and highly informative.
What do people think magazines and radio shows do all the time? If you were to call Hamlet's interview an infomercial, then you've have to do it for just about every trade publication and magazine out there.