Calendar
Network
Feeds
- 35
- Sphinn It!
Went Hot: April 3, 2008 - 7:10 am
Posted By: mpilatow 192 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://worstseoblogever.wordpress.com)
Category: SEO
29 Comments
Went Hot: April 3, 2008 - 7:10 am
Posted By: mpilatow 192 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://worstseoblogever.wordpress.com)
Category: SEO
29 Comments
Top 10 Most Sphunn
In What's New
- 11 Ways to Market Your New Social N... (20)
- Personal Branding is BS (18)
- SEO Canonical URLs And 301 Redirect... (16)
- 25 Ways to Build Your Community (16)
- How to Test Your Site Usability wit... (15)
- Have Gun, Will Telecommute (15)
- Best SEO Practices During A Website... (15)
- Why You Should Build a Web Business... (15)
- 9 Easy Ways to Get More Blog Commen... (15)
- An Experiment - SEO Style - What ar... (13)
Latest Comments
- I love marketing spin, especially when they say that Yahoo! Web Analytics i…
- Really good advice, a lot of those instructions can be easily applied with …
- "Site-wide External links from the footer" was the thing I was researching …
- A rare glimpse of the "real" Loren. A few takeaways:"pe…
- It seems pretty clear to me that SEOMOz's tools are aimed at a bulk of webm…
- Very nice post. …
- Thanks for the Sphinn Justin!…
- You can also do the same thing with Google's Gas Buddy application …
- - read more -
Save the date for:
• SMX London - Nov. 4-5: Pre-agenda rate now available. Click here.
• SMX West - Feb. 10-12
Learn more about search marketing through free online webcasts and webinars from our sister site Search Marketing Now.
Upcoming Webcasts:
- 5 Ghastly PPC Mistakes to Avoid
October 14, 2008 - SEM Agencies and Reporting: Best Practices for Success
October 23, 2008 - Measuring an Ad's Value: A Forum Discussion
October 28, 2008
Comments
Awesome! I vote SEOHack King of the SEO Board! YEAH!
Mr. Pilatowski and Ms. Whalen are people of superior intellect, wit and character. =)
But of course!
No argument here - this is a great debate, though - would hate to see it put to bed
Yeah Kevin, it is an important topic but these common sense intitiatives will creative definitive and workable standards :>)
Awesome! Great post 'Hack, also thanks for betting me that it wouldn't crack 12! Looks like you owe me a drink
Hack - remember us little people when you get pushed into SEO stardom and begin giving keynotes and stuff like that.
kthnxbye
@kevinheisler what more do we need? We all just blindly follow SEOhack's standards and we're good to go!
Hmmmm, I thought I was familiar with everyone that has ever said anything even remotely intelligent or even interesting about seo or sem but in #11 who is this heil person he's talking about?
He has a forum, go check it out. Just do a search for Doug Heil. He probably hates you though since you are a Sphinn member and he considers Sphinn the ultimate SEO spammer haven.
Just read his wikipage...
Ahh geez. Consider me signed up.
desphunn because this is an important topic. If we ever really want to achieve true respect as a marketing industry, we have to establish standards. That is the bottom line.
There are a few people in this industry that have gotten very far on brains alone without having to operate in the same professional manner that the majority of the rest of the marketing world does. As SEO grows as a viable option and more large corporations adopt SEO as a part of their planning, we need more professionals out there carrying our standards. We do not need crusty old experts telling us standards are unneeded.What we need even less is people that make light of this situation and throw even more clutter in the way of our evolution as an industry. Again, I thought this was funny but really, I do hope that people understand this is important. I’ll have more on Friday…
those "crusty old experts" are experts for a good reason. the idea of industry standards is ridiculous for many reasons that have already been put forth more than once by people smarter than me.
Best practices are not the same for every site, even though that would be very convenient for everyone. Also, despite what you may read in the odd blog post, there are hard won secrets in this industry. And no one's going to put them on a list for you to follow, sorry.
OK have fun working on the viagra sites of the world and those with standards will continue to win the fortune 500 business. No problem with me.
Of course anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a pharma-spammer right? If you say so buddy...you obviously know better than all of us.
@BogglesMyMind - exactly what types of industries are you comparing SEO to? Certainly there are industries that warrant the existence of standards, but in an industry that is tied to the whims of search engines, algorithms, user content, infinite competition and ever evolving technology/code can standards really be put into place. We’re not mechanics & electricians here, we are, at the base of this, advertisers on a media which is not governed (at least not very much, thank God) by any body. It’s not as though the FCC is going to clamp on us like they would television advertisers. So why develop a set of standards for this industry?
@ boggs - yeah, those "crusty old experts" need to make way some young snot-nosed punk with friggin' dreamweaver and broadband connection. If it weren't for those "crusty old experts", you'd not have an industry to complain about not having any standards. And believe it or not, you owe those pharma-spammers and porn site operators from way back a debt of gratitude.
thanks for enlightening me. i didn't realize there was a governing body for advertising and marketing that will come and pull your advertising or marketing card and not allow you to operate anymore.
we have plenty of standards, as i explained to you in my reply to your comment on the post. And if you're looking for codification of an "SEO'd" site, you're being lazy. Just like DarkMatter said, every site is different. And the search engines don't treat every site the same. But if you're hung up on standards, do a search for "Google Webmaster Guidelines".
c'mon guys, let's disagree without letting this degrade into a Digg style flame thread.
@DarkMatter - please don't associate me with him.
sounds like someone wants control. you see, inevitably, standards require a governing body. who appoints that governing body? elitist morons who rarely participate in the day-to-day activities they supposedly govern. these men will, by nature, govern as is politically beneficial to them. (see a trend here?)
conversely, a fluid industry enables growth, creativity & innovation. compare: interactive vs. print media. standards will emerge not because somebody says, "this is what we should do" but because something works well for everyone involved.
if you're interested in controlling conversations, stay off the interwebs.
sounds like heated debate should move to "SEM Crossfire" - maybe BogglesMyMind could get one of those porn site operators from way back a say.
I certainly enjoy the rhetoric and humor...without it I think we'd all go crazy .
We are all friends here; and we can agree it is much better to be percieved a "professional" rather than a opportunist or loose-cannon. "Standards" add an element of credibility and authenticity to a group or organization and thereby present a much more "professional" attitude to outsiders (clients) and insiders (practitioners) alike.
We will begin to see more advancement, organization and structure around the issue of "Standards" in search marketing; and those who take the time to participate (such as this group of Sphinn'ers) will look back in 10-years to see search marketing as a more integral part of Interactive Marketing.
Best regards and if ever approached with an opportunity to help in developing Standards for Search, please give it serious consideration. You are a valued member of an innoavtive, expanding, profitable and worthwhile community.
The search industry as it is today has plenty of credibility, respect and admiration from the marketing community as a whole. If you can't see that from where you're sitting you need to move.
The idea that we need some kind of universal standards or governing body for this industry is just silly.
@ DarkMatter - didn't mean to offend you or boggs. just thought his remarks were a little snotty and replied in kind with snot.
@ hilker - yes! exactly!
@ double07 - i'm going to have to agree to disagree with you. i fail to see what value, if any, having standards will do for this industry. for standards to matter they have to have a governing body as well as people willing to sign up, abide by and be governed by these standards on top of what the search engines require and governmental law dictates. As Jill has said many times, that's plenty of standards already! Advertising, marketing, public relations, journalism, grocery clerks, soccer coaches - the list is endless really - have all been doing their jobs for a long time without the need of a governing body. Some of those people bemoan the fact that that technically doesn't make them "professionals". but does that really matter? do only the best mechanics have an ASE patch on their shirt? hell no. i've seen some rather poor auto mechanics that are "certified". As to boggs' complaints about not having standards and that only "crusty old experts" oppose having written in stone standards, the only standards you need to abide by are the ones you set for yourself. If you're going to go out and screw people over, you'll get your cumuppance. Traffic Power seems to come to mind. do right by what you think is right and your client. there's your standards.
@seohack
no offense taken, and I understand. I thought he was rude as well but I'd prefer to keep things friendly...there are all to few sites these days where people can disagree without hurling personal insults and I'd like to keep Sphinn on that list!
If the complaint (re. the rest of the world not taking SEOs seriously) is really about professionalism, I don't see how having a codified set of standards will help. If there's a rule that SEOs aren't allowed to show up to client meetings in their underwear, will that makes us look more respectable as an industry?
Because this issue of whether someone is professional enough to work with Fortune 500 clients isn't about technical standards -- either you can convince someone you can produce results or you can't. And if there's anything I'd want clients to understand it's that following a set of "rules" doesn't guarantee success.
I think enough people already get that SEO is important and effective. We don't need to keep working hard to prove that. Whether people take us seriously as individuals is an entirely different matter that wouldn't be affected by a set of official standards.
Seems like some issues are being conflated here.
OK people no time right now for much detail. I want to clarify that I have every bit of respect for those dealing with ranking sites in the much more difficult world of adult/etc. Try being in that world and using only the techniques advocated by Jill.
As I repeatedly said (I feel a bit like Nader here) there are two main sides to this argument, plus mine which calls for a glossary and tactical risk rating. I have been bunched into the standards side because my version leans that way, I guess.
Those that have to participate in techniques outside of the SEO guidelines stand to lose the most from a set of standards, or at least a definition of MOST techniques used by SEOs. the benefactors are the general marketing population (including "your" competitors in some cases).
Please this is a spirited debate but I want you to know that I respect everyone involved.. hehe unless that Doug Heil guy comes in. ;)
SEOHack, I think we can solve the dilemma put forth by boggles by appointing one crusty old expert to be a knight or princess or something on your rock star board. Oh wait, or not appointing one, or something like that.
This thread is hilarious!
It's a joke guys. SEOhack's standards. HE WAS JOKING. (In case anyone didn't notice.)