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Posted By:
jasoncalacanis
369 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://www.calacanis.com)
Category: Searching
13 Comments
Posted By:
jasoncalacanis
369 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://www.calacanis.com)
Category: Searching
13 Comments
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Comments
Jason, how concerned are you with your target audience being able to find Mahalo? It seems like it's easier for those not in your target audience (early adopters, etc.) to find it, but those you really have built it for are all using Google and may have know what of knowing something else is out there.
Also, I know you've addressed this before, but are you worried at all about scalability? Certain verticals do lend themselves better to the type of thing you're doing at Mahalo, but I can see problems both with keeping those categories comprehensive and up to date, as well as with the fact that once a user goes beyond those categories into a search that Mahalo doesn't cover, that user may get frustrated and abandon it.
Finally, what about Mahalo do you think really sets it apart from other sites that have tried similar approaches (about.com, etc.)?
Who do "normal people" go to when they need to buy a new computer or laptop? Their leading edge and bleeding edge "computer" friends and family.
Who do "normal people" go to when they need a new phone, MP3 Player, or gaming system? Their leading edge and bleeding edge "geek" and "gadget" friends and family.
If you can't convince the leading edge, and bleeding edge early adopters that your product is good who is going to recommend it to people further down the line? You'll never get enough momentum or critical mass to reach the tipping point.
Vanessa: Thanks for the comment...
>> how concerned are you with your target
>> audience being able to find Mahalo?
Great question... I'm not worried at all. We have a half-dozen marketing strategies already lined up, and we've funded the company for a five year build. We're really lucky in that we don't have a clock ticking like other startups typically do. We can really focus on building a great product and let users find it over time.
Also, I've always believed that if you make the best product out there folks will find there way to it. Folks bookmark your site and/or remember the name of it if it's amazing.... so, all you have to do is be amazing. ;-)
>> Also, I know you've addressed this
>> before, but are you worried at all
>> about scalability?
It's a big challenge obviously, but with thousands of people in the Greenhouse and 50/100/200/etc. people inhouse I think we will be able to keep the pages up to date. The public is already checking up on our pages and giving us advice on how to make them better. We only need a couple of passionate users (i.e. site owners, fans, etc) to care about each SERP in order to keep the SERPs up to date.
You can see folks helping out here:
http://www.mahalo.com/Special:MahaloActivity
If you do the math it's not as bad as you might think. If it takes 15-20 minutes to update a page one of our full-time folks could update 25 a day. If you have 100 folks you can update 2,500 a day or 10k plus a month. If our goal is to have 25,000 pages we can update the entire index fairly often... and those numbers don't account for the public helping update the pages. If the public helps and we have 1,000 folks in the Greenhouse we could update the index in a week.
Also, the pages include RSS And other data feeds... so, some items won't need updating. More on this to come.
>> Finally, what about Mahalo do you
>> think really sets it apart from
>> other sites that have tried similar
>> approaches (about.com, etc.)?
We're different than ODP, Wikipedia, and About.com (the three I would say most resemble what we're doing) in a couple of different ways.
However, before we get into that it's important to note that those three sites have all been in the top 100 sites for a large portion of the past 10 years--so having the success of any of those three would be HUGE of course.
We are different than About.com in that we're first and foremost a search experience, not a destination. We're also not involved with the crush of advertising that About.com does. So, I think About.com as successful as it is, has been marginalized because they go nuts with advertising and they really don't focus on the quality of the product enough.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and as such doesn't aim to help you navigate the web/find great sites.
DMOZ was destroyed by neglect--nuf said.
If DMOZ and About.com were really focused on for the past five years I think they would be top 10 sites honestly. So, in some ways their failure is part of our inspiration. I don't think they "failed" because of their value, concept, or the hard work of their teams... I think outside factors killed them/marginalized them.
best j
>> Who do "normal people" go to when they
>> need a new phone, MP3 Player, or gaming
>> system? Their leading edge and bleeding
>> edge "geek" and "gadget" friends and family.
I don't know that you're correct on that one Wolf. While some people do that some of the time, I think a lot of folks do look online for help... I mean, the stats on how many people do car, vacation, college, and product research online are staggering.
Also, it might not be an either or.... some folks might ask their friends then go online for more information I suspect. I know that's what I do.
>> If you can't convince the leading
>> edge, and bleeding edge early adopters
>> that your product is good who is going
>> to recommend it to people further
>>down the line? You'll never get enough
>> momentum or critical mass to reach
>> the tipping point.
Two things:
1. While that might apply to high-tech, risky devices I don't know that think that it's true for all products and services. Not every product starts with early adopters like gadgets or social networks do.
2. That being said, there are a LOT of early adopters showing Mahalo.com to their family and friends. For example, wWe have a ton of early adopters in the Mahalo Greenhouse writing search results and sending their family and friends to the site. We also have dozens of developers making cool products with the Mahalo API and promoting them and we haven't even officially announced the API!).
So, it may not be the case and if it is I think we have it covered. :-)
Frankly, I'm a little surprised at the amount of coverage and debate Mahalo has generated. I thought folks would here the idea and just go "hmmm.... interesting" and then I could go back to work. I'm shocked that in only 90 days we've had so much coverage and debate... in some ways I would have liked to build the product out more. The original plan was to launch with 10,000 or 25,000 pages in 2008--not 4,000 in June of 2007. However, I think it's nice that so many folks are interested enough to debate it, blog it, and participate in it.
I have to say, despite my shaky relationship with the SEO industry they've become the best source or promotion and advice we have! I figured they would ignore us... I guess I figured wrong. :-)
all the best,
J
>While that might apply to high-tech, risky devices I don't know that think that it's true for all products and services. Not every product starts with early adopters like gadgets or social networks do.
C'mon I know you're smarter than that. Every industry has "trendsetters" and "trailblazers". For example fashion has celebs or quasi celebs who lead the way like Victoria Beckham, there is even a whole industry around covering the trends, here's one you might know
http://www.styledash.com/2007/06/20/fergie-falls-victim-to-the-high-waisted-trend/
And it's not just "city" folk either, for example when roundup engineered seeds entered the agricultural market there were issues with early adopters
http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2000/mm0001.06.html
I'm pretty sure Malcom Gladwell called these people "mavens" and they are everywhere influencing things in obvious and not so obvious ways. They influence what all the other kids in school wear, what books people read, and what the A-Listers in the blogosphere chat about.
You can't really be surprised people still talk about Mahalo, when the chatter dies down you quite often do something yourself to start it up again, and we tussle with you over it because a lot of us are shameless attention whores.
I know you're not a big fan of the "black hats" but having one around is really an asset. There's a reason ex-hackers and ex-cons make great members of your security team. They know what they are talking about and approach problems in a way most people would never think of.
Since as you say you've gotten some good promotion and advice from us, how about cutting us some slack now and then and not say most of us are all "bad" quite so often.
>> Who do "normal people" go to when they need a new phone, MP3 Player, or gaming system? Their leading edge and bleeding edge "geek" and "gadget" friends and family.
>> I don't know that you're correct on that one Wolf. While some people do that some of the time, I think a lot of folks do look online for help... I mean, the stats on how many people do car, vacation, college, and product research online are staggering.
I'm inclined to agree with Jason on this point. Even the leading edge and the gadget lovers of the family do a lot of online research to reinforce what they already know. Also, many times there is an expert in the friend/family group in one or two topics, but I'd say the majority of the time the non-geek will go online to reinforce what the "geek friend" has told them.
>> While that might apply to high-tech, risky devices I don't know that think that it's true for all products and services. Not every product starts with early adopters like gadgets or social networks do.
>> C'mon I know you're smarter than that. Every industry has "trendsetters" and "trailblazers". For example fashion has celebs or quasi celebs who lead the way like Victoria Beckham, there is even a whole industry around covering the trends...
I'll have to side with Graywolf this time. Whether it be high tech gadgets or lego's, there are always early adopters. The trendsetters in high tech certainly may have more influence than other industries, but every industry has them nonetheless.
Jason says: "We're really lucky in that we don't have a clock ticking like other startups typically do."
That statement sums up one of the major problems out there in the VC world today. Late 90's dot com people getting a free pass with a different set of rules than people with fresh idesa starting out today. I know of quite a few people with search start up ideas that couldn't get a wooden nickel raised yet you chose to gloat about the fact you have different rules applied to you. My question is do you really need the special rules?
To be fair Dalka, I didn't find that statement to be "gloating" at all. In fact, from my point of view it was downright self-deprecating when you consider some of Jason's other comments in the past :P
But seriously, I think calling it "gloating" is a bit harsh.
On the scalability thing, you may want to give your boy Andy a break:
http://www.mahalo.com/Special:Mahaloprofile?uid=30
Not even Dick Clark or Casey Kasem would've been qualified to write pages about +/- 600 artists.
I just dont know why someone who doesnt care or even from what I have read has disdain for SEO's is posting here...
Jason, come on, SEL doesn't make the top 7 for SEO on Mahalo? Really? Maybe I'd better submit some links.
Nice to see you over here. I wanted more testimonials in your post!
Danny: submit your link! remember our serps are 60-70% complete when we publish... we're hoping to evolve them with the help of experts and the community!
>> Late 90's dot com people getting a free
>> pass with a different set of rules than
>> people with fresh idesa starting out today.
>> I know of quite a few people with search
>> start up ideas that couldn't get a wooden
>> nickel raised yet you chose to gloat about
>> the fact you have different rules applied
>> to you. My question is do you really
>> need the special rules?
Well, I'm certainly not gloating... the fact is this is a very big project that is going to take years to build. That's why we were able to raise the capital.
Now, five or ten years ago I wouldn't have been able to raise any capital, but since I've done a couple of things that were somewhat successful I've been rewarded with the ability to do bigger projects... that's sort of how the free market works. If you do successful stuff you get more resources in the future... you can see this trend across the entire industry.
I didn't cry about not having resources when I didn't have a track record, and I'm certainly not going to cry about having resources now. :-)
best j
all the best,
jason