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Vanessa doesn't really have any experience in actual current SEO, Rand does. Pretty simple stuff.
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Um, well, since she actually worked for Google and has some degree of knowledge on how it deals with web pages -- and you know, as been on panels and stuff answering questions on the topic -- and since like as she posted, Rand's quiz pointed at one of her answers as proof of the correctness of a quiz answer -- if you made it through all those multiple clauses, I think she speaks with a fair degree of authority.
The problem with the quizzes in general isn't that Vanessa is right or wrong or that Rand is right or wrong but that some questions simply don't have a correct answer for any one search engine, much less across the board.
I've liked how the quizzes can get me thinking, but the waters are indeed mirky as you describe -- and just having a quiz doesn't mean that the questions (and answers) suddenly become less mirky.
Actually, she was fairly dead on. She did a point by point analysis of the questions she disagreed with, and nothing she said was incorrect.
Her main point was that many of the questions didn't have cut and dried answers, but the quiz grades as if that is the case.
Danny.
Thank you for responding, it is solid of you to do so. My point is not that she is not knowlegable about search engines and many of these issues. It is that she lacks experience as an SEO.
This is true and fact.
Cleary she is knowledgeable and authoritative on Google issues. But she is not on current SEO issues from the perspective of an SEO.
I have never gotten worked up about an issue before, I usually make fun of people who get as worked up as I am right now. I have had alot of respect for both Vanessa and Rand for a long, long time. More respect and for a longer period than they know.
I got hurt by that title. Plain and simple. Made me sad and I guess I am displaying it with anger.
If people want advice from Google then They can go to the Google webmaster guidelines and the Google help pages, which indeed, Vanessa has written Vanessa is the best place to go for this.
If they want solid SEO advice in the real world they should go to Rand and SEOmoz, and not an inexperienced SEO like Vanessa.
I have for years, Danny, years, quoted Vanessa on Googles take on things. I have never once quoted her on how to do real world SEO.
"The quiz is more accurately a test of how much of your personal SEO philosophy matches that of SEOmoz."
Sorry Pat, though I'm a fan of SEOmoz, I have to agree with Vanessa. She's not claiming to be a better SEO than Rand; in fact, she isn't even pretending to be an SEO. She is pointing to the fact that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
"Try not to think in terms of right or wrong" - Morpheus, The Matrix.
Mvandmar, I actually agree with Vanessa on the content of her post the same things that came to her mind also came into mine. I totally agree with her points, but her points in no way add up to a title that includes labeling someone as "completely wrong"
"Try not to think in terms of right or wrong" - Morpheus, The Matrix.
Great quote halfdeck, wish Vanessa would have thought of it proir to creating her title.
Heh. I almost put the disclaimer on the post that the title was meant to be funny, in homage of Rand's love and skill of linkbait.
"I got hurt by that title. Plain and simple. Made me sad and I guess I am displaying it with anger."
That's a tad bit of an over-reaction, wouldn't you say? I mean, Rand has his critics, but Vanessa is actually a supporter of his. To lash out at her for voicing that in her opinion one of his linkbaits was poorly thought out is a bit, well, strange, imo. Implying that she doesn't know what she's talking about seems way off base.
mvandemar,
fair enough.
Good post Vanessa. Even if some of the answers are "wrong" the quiz still might make some people think a bit more about what they know, and do further research to ascertain why Rand thinks one way, and they think another. It still might not change the outcome, but the more people look into wider aspects of SEO the more things they will find to improve their knowledge.
See also: http://sphinn.com/story/5274 and
http://www.vanessafoxnude.com/2007/09/11/why-the-seomoz-seo-quiz-is-completely-wrong/
So, how many people have posted about the quiz at this point? How many of us have posted the spiffy badge indicating how we did on the quiz?
I don't think anyone needs to worry about who's right and who's wrong about who's right and who's wrong. That's not what this is about. It's a bit of fun and a lot of links.
As a side note; I think this post has the lowest spin/comments ratio I have seen on Sphinn, could be a record.
That seems to be a vote for Vanessa... I thought the quiz was pretty cool, I learned some stuff and that's ok by me.
I voted to give support to Pat. :P
"Vanessa doesn't really have any experience in actual current SEO, Rand does."
Matt Cutts (Matt #1) doesn't have any "actual current SEO" experience, but we all seem to think he knows what he's talking about, right? :-)
Thanks Tamar!
Matt - I know. I know.
Vanessa - It had to be total sweet fun to write a title like that after being reigned in by Google for so long. :)
C'mon, even if you don't agree with the post, this is a great thread to have on the front page. If only for the opinions alone.
On the meat of the subject, I tried to finish the quiz but got bored.
But it raises an interesting point, how much seo does a Google employee actually know? My thinking is that knowledge of the algo is less and less important each day and dabbling in the psychology of persuasion marketing is becoming more important.
Could a person who knows the algo inside out rank above any seo out there? I'm not so sure.
nor am i, Lydon, nor am i
As a reminder, it's not just votes that can move a story to the home page. Discussion has an impact, though it's still skewed toward the voting.
I thought Vanessa was mostly right, and she gives good read. And since it was a "quiz" opinion is not supposed to matter (um... she was right about that, too).
I balked at the "no longer there or missing" thing but like Vanessa I have a technical background with server response codes... who else cares? The point was to make sure you serve 404s and not 200ok duplicates.
Geesh my sons 5th grade "standardized" Washington State math exam had tons of bad questions in it. I think I expect test writers to suck.
Of course as link bait it's great. But I bet half of Sphinn new an SEO Quiz was good link bait. But who wants to make one? Yech. Credit where credit is due... nice work making the quiz, nice work building discussions and great commentary all around.
The wording is vital, otherwise it conveys the wrong meaning. Most tests seem to have a shortfall like this. It is very difficult to get it exactly right, first time.
At that point it does the opposite of educate. I would hope that at least part of the reason for the quiz was to help educate. We assume that a big reason was link bait.