News Source: 1
Published: Sep 24, 2007 - 12:35 am
Story Found By: AndyBeard 1602 Days ago
Category: Sphinn Zone
22 Comments
Sorry this site requires JavaScript to be enabled in your browser. See the following guide on How to enable JavaScript in Internet Explorer, Netscape, Firefox and Safari. Alternatively you may be blocking JavaScript with an advert-related or developer plugin. Please check your browser plugins.
News Source: 1
Published: Sep 24, 2007 - 12:35 am
Story Found By: AndyBeard 1602 Days ago
Category: Sphinn Zone
22 Comments
Upcoming Conferences
Search Engine Land produces SMX, the Search Marketing Expo conference series. SMX events deliver the most comprehensive educational and networking experiences - whether you're just starting in search marketing or you're a seasoned expert.
Join us at an upcoming SMX event:
- SMX West - Feb. 28 - Mar. 1, 2012
- SMX Munich - Mar. 27-28, 2012
- SMX Toronto - Apr. 25-26, 2012
- SMX Sydney - May 1-2, 2012
- SMX London - May 15-16, 2012
- SMX Advanced Seattle - June 5-6, 2012
- SMX Paris - June 7-8 2012
- SMX Melbourne - Aug. 2012
- SMX East - Oct. 2-4, 2012
- SMX Stockholm - Sept. 15-16, 2012
- SMX Social Media Marketing - Dec. 2012
Latest News From Marketing Land
- Marketing Day: February 10, 2012
- Report: iPhone, iPad Now Drive More Web Traffic Than Mac OS
- Drawing Out Your Affiliate Program Marketing Plan
- Is Yahoo About To Make Another Big Mistake — With Its Display Ad Business?
- Google Analytics For The Enterprise: Perception & Reality
- - See more news at Marketing Land -
Upcoming Webcasts
Learn more about search marketing with our free online webcasts and webinars from our sister site, Search Marketing Now. Upcoming online events include:
- The Inside Scoop on Automating and Optimizing Your PPC Campaigns - February 21, 2012
Latest News From Search Engine Land
- Google’s Recent Domain Registrations: Labs, Screenwise & AdWords
- Google AdWords Gets Shared Lists To Eliminate Duplicate Data Entry
- SearchCap: The Day In Search, February 10, 2012
- Now, Mitt Romney Has A Santorum-Like Bing & Google Problem
- Search In Pics: Google Sugar Cube, Yahoo Valentines & Chrome M&M’s
- - See more news at Search Engine Land -
Comments
Just noticed this too. I actually literally sent a topic hot with 15 sphinns when your previous artical about my libel case was at 14. Mine went to 15 within same hour and didnt seem to hit the first page - i *think* that was actually on Friday (wasn’t sure if it was "ethical ;) or not to promote such a change, though. Now it languishes at 19 still not hot.I actually think this is quite a good thing in the long run, and shows the site is quie rightly getting more popular. But I do agree abut old content but I think "hot" news would still hit the top quite quickly. I also think Danny must have a few other algo things up his sleeve as the curent system is actually quite open to manipulation if you were so inclined.Perhaps, like Stumpble upon, individual Sphinners who have a good "Reputation Power" (like yourself, lyndoman tamar even danny etc should have a more powerful level of "sphinn" than the rest of us. A sphinn worth 2 could help hot stories hit the top faster.You might have recognised sometimes I don’t put a lot of thought into my ideas before I release them! Perhaps this wouldnt be fair etc.
I am just worried about a number of scenarios1. News stories that really are news somehow taking 2 or 3 days to reach the front page2. The potential of a reply to an original story hitting the front page, yet the original which contains more content might languish beyond the 3 day make, and never reach the front page, because it disappeared off the "What’s new" first page before it could go hot3. More niche, but very informative posts never seeing the light of day. Sometimes it is going to take 2 days for them to get from 10 to 20 votes, but being on page 7 to 10 of What’s new isn’t giving them a fair chance.
nice timing Andy, my story (you submitted) is now Hot! at 20 sphinns :)
"The potential of a reply to an original story hitting the front page, yet the original which contains more content might languish beyond the 3 day make, and never reach the front page..."I’ve noticed that also. Because of the ordering of the What’s New page the dupe and "me too" posts are seen and read before the original. Maybe a simple re-ordering of the page from the oldest to newest of the last 25 submissions might help.
I like the idea of an upcoming tab as well. A while ago when Sphinn launched, I suggested using the right sidebar (where the 125 x 125 ads currently are) for something like a ’Hot’ or Upcoming list which includes links to perhaps 10 stories with the most votes..but were not yet frontpaged.
If everyone filters by 10 or more, how will the good stuff that is less-controversial or from lesser-known posters ever reach the top?
I think ths was to be expected as a sign of success. It’s not that remarkable. Howver it means we’ll all be reading 2 pages deep into the up and coming news. I’m sure Danny has a vision. If it does not work, I’m sure it will be somehow changed. The perfect method might be for the "requirement" to go hot be based on an algorithm which evaluates current activity + or minus X hours or days. I’m guessing that solution has been discussed. If it’s not canned in Plig than it could be expensive to program.
I’m just a mod and have no say in the matter, but I have noticed over time that Danny is experimenting with the impacts of changing the magic number. I remember it bumped up to 12/13 for a few days, then went back down to 10. It bumped up to 16, then was moved back down to 15. I’m sure there’ll continue to be a fair amount of trial-and-error testing to make sure there’s always good content hitting the home page.
Matt I am just worried for the content that slips through the net. Just an example one of Querty’s that slipped through the net when only 10 were required in the early days, even with Danny Sphinning it.I have actually suggested we might try a little "Problogger" content rotation on it, because when I read it I found it valuable and really learnt something from it.I can understand when people are suggesting they are sick of a certain kind of article all the time, but the fact is that other type of articles are submitted and often overlooked.
Something I’ve observed is if your submits are not on blogs/sites already trafficked by the users here the timeline to go hot is shorter.I’ve also found myself on "avatar watch" keeping an eye out for sphinners I’ve liked content from in the past.
Out of the current 150 "What’s New" posts I found 23 made it to double digits (10 or better) but remain below the 20 Sphinns threshold. None were at 19.
Andy Thanks for the post. Yesterday I was just about to post about the same ;-) "Up and Coming" tab sounds like a great idea.
Is it possible to have a perfect system? No. Is it possible to please everyone? No There are many variables in a system like this. Changing on teeny tiny thing means a ripple can turn into a tidal wave throughout the site. Of course lessor known posters of worthy material are going to disapear down the Sphinn plug hole. Name me one social bookmarking site where this does not happen. Even Stumbleupon is dependant on the inital few who Stumble. The point is we are not going to get a perfect system and highlighting specific points and judging the system on that is a mistake. Pull back and see the big picture. Is there good stuff on the front page? Yes. Can anyone submit something with a chance of making it to the front page? Yes. Sure it’s harder for a new submitter. Rep has to be built, and no system is a pure, 100% cream rising to the top machine. Sphinn is not even a snapshot of what is happening on the search marketing space, it is a snapshot of the people who participate on Sphinn. From that, we gain a great deal. Information, connections, ideas etc. Who knows what Sphinn is really for or where it’s going to go? It’s a great ride though. [edit] Hmmm, I guess we can’t format comments.
I spose the other issue is the volume of stories going hot, I imagine there is an ideal number that Danny and co are aiming for. The the number of sphinns required to go hot is one tool they have to control the flow. I think there are plenty of arguments for including a reputation algo, it’ll help reward those of who use the site regularly & highlight what we like.What I wouldn’t want is to skew the system too much whereby noobs struggle to get their submissions go hot, as ultimately that will effect the newer/different points of getting through aswell.
Lyndon You hit the nail right on the head ;-) "- Of course lessor known posters of worthy material are going to disapear down the Sphinn plug hole.""- Yes. Sure it’s harder for a new submitter. "
When we launched, a story had to go hot within 3 days, if it was going to go at all. This weekend, that was taken back to 2. There’s more activity on the site, so the feeling was with Rob and I that pulling it back by a day was worth testing.The number of Sphinns was also taken up. It had been around 15, and a jump right up to around 20 might have been too much. I say about, because commenting activity plays a role. Why don’t we let it go a day or two, and we’ll see. Typically, this was only notched up one vote at a time, so that jump might have been too high. But then again, we’ve been getting about 20 stories or more per day going hot, so we wanted to take the level up to set the bar a bit higher. In my mind, 10-20 stories going hot per day feels about right. Over that amount, and it just seem like it’s time to raise things.We have to take things up over time, because we have more and more people joining and using the site. What was the "ideal" number a month ago makes no sense if you increase your membership by a 1/3. Adding more tabs isn’t going to be the solution. I can tell you that most people only hit the home page, then there’s a big drop off to What’s New. An additional tab isn’t going to help. Instead, the plan is that the What’s New page will show the top five most sphunn stories in What’s New, then you’ll see the latest stories. In addition, we’re looking for a way to show the most Sphunn stories in What’s New on the home page in addition to the Hot stories. We hope to do that within a month or less -- honest. We’re actually finishing some work to bring the site out of beta this week, then we have a software upgrade to do, then we’re going to press forward with more of these features. A date range filter is something we can consider as part of that, as might some of the other changes talked about to keep What’s New fresh and relevant (such as filtering out except those from friends, or with a certain reputation and so on).
Democracy is always slower. This discussion merely takes issue with a simple truth of social media.
Normally in a democratic election there are stages in the process to highlight front-runners. It might still not be a perfect system, but theoretically it helps bring the major players to the forefront. Unfortunately the higher barrier that is set, the more chance that "populist" opinions are favoured by the system, and in some ways I feel that is a disservice to the advancement of SEM knowledge. I must admit even now I haven’t seen any articles that managed to attain 10 Sphinns that wouldn’t also be worth of the front page. (note I have to refer to recent times as the number of users and number of Sphinns changes)
The fact that someone with a ’good reputation’ Submits, or even sphinns a story increases the chances of hit hitting page1 without any algorithmic change. "Avatar watch" is something we all do naturally and rewards an active Sphinner in exact relation to their activity, because that is how their reputation is built. Tweaking the system so a vote is literally worth more skews this their popularity way out of proportion.
The whole idea behind social media is that "populist" opinions are favoured. I agree this does not lead to the most accurate information always being highlighted, but again this is just another truth of social media.
You can also find the stuff that is about to go popular here: http://www.sphinn.com/upcoming/most this helps to cut down on some of the clutter that you might see in /upcoming...
I’ve only just woken up, although just wanted to confirm that I’m constantly monitoring with Danny what basically makes up the Sphinn algo. We’ll keep adjusting as necessary, although it’s important that "Hot Topics" are actually hot, and not just the result of an increasing membership base and level of interaction.