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- Sphinn It!
Went Hot: September 25, 2007 - 7:18 pm
Posted By: g1smd 649 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://blog.dmoz.org)
Category: AOL
So today, the ODP Blog has gone live. This blog is written by AOL Staff. The first few topics will give a general introduction to the ODP and its workings, mainly for those that may not have heard about the project before, or may not know much about it. Later posts will cover much wider topics, and there is some very interesting material to come over the following few months.
See: http://blog.dmoz.org/ for more.
25 Comments
Comments
SEL have now also covered it at: http://searchengineland.com/070925-132849.php
How about a link from that SEL post to this thread too, rather than create a new topic?
so is this a sign that dmoz will actually provide a better service or just a cosmetic change? i'm still skeptical. i guess only time will tell.
Editors see it as a much bigger commitment from AOL than at any time in the last couple of years: extra AOL staff assigned, new servers online, some internal software changes and improvements, and more and better communication routes.
@g1smd, we can't do it that way, sorry. There are going to be dupes of stories. I've learned that's the nature of social news sites. Dupes are OK -- in general, it's only going to be one main story that tends to rise, or maybe a few but on slightly different topics. We'll watch it, of course.
Just what we need, an official DMOZ blog so that we can read all their commentary on how they're doing such a great job and going to fix DMOZ. yada yada yada
The disinformation thingy cracks me up. Is it disinformation that they don't approve honest editor applications in favor of abandoned categories? It seems to me that at DMOZ pigs do fly.
"we can read all their commentary on how they're doing such a great job and going to fix DMOZ. yada yada yada"
The commentary will not always be a pep rally. The best way to change the way people feel about you is to listen.
"Is it disinformation that they don't approve honest editor applications in favor of abandoned categories?"
I think what you're saying is there was a vacant cat that needs an editor and you ( the honest applicant ) were not accepted. This unfortunately can happen. Please try resubmitting.
More information here: http://www.dmoz.org/help/become.html#how
"at DMOZ pigs do fly"
Hmmm...http://search.dmoz.org/cgi-bin/search?search=pigs+do+fly
I tell, it's like that have a Google Alert for anything that mentions DMOZ..
So is this going to kill Mahalo?
@Andy - a friend once sent me a preview that came from an AOL endeavor they called the greenhouse. I notice that Jason has appropriated the term also for Mahalo. Didn't he use to be part of AOL? Did he engage with DMOZ while he was there? Or was he reserving past experience and acquiring knowledge that was intended for a later independent try?
well, this could be a good sign. Perhaps AOL is waking up and taking some responsibility for DMOZ.
Never got to meet the ODP/DMOZ folks while I was at AOL (was too busy working on Netscape and Weblogs, Inc.).
However, i can tell you we have DOZENS of DMOZ editors helping build Mahalo right now (and getting paid for doing so... we pay :-).
The links on DMOZ
Happy to see AOL is working on DMOZ again. I wish them well. We looked at the dataset and thought about using it as a starting point for Mahalo since it's GPL. However, when we looked at the linkrot and spam we decided it would actually be easier to start from scratch.
You guys know a lot more about this than I do, but from what i understand it's filled with spam/SEO sites and all kinds of bad stuff. Frankly, I think it's going to be hard to get folks to work for free on DMOZ in this era... good editors are needed on projects that will pay (or donate their fees like we do), so getting editors attention these days is harder.
again, i wish them luck and if they do a good job cleaning it up we would consider using their dataset in some way.
best j
Yeah, whatever Jason.
Jason's right.
How does DMOZ intend to get round the retention/recruitment/quality problem if the opposition pays?
This thread is about the ODP Blog, not some other site. Nice attempt at thread hijacking there.
"Never got to meet the ODP/DMOZ folks while I was at AOL (was too busy working on Netscape and Weblogs, Inc.)."
No one asked, no one cares.
"However, i can tell you we have DOZENS of DMOZ editors helping build Mahalo right now (and getting paid for doing so... we pay :-). "
Oh goodie, Jason has bought himself some more people! Stop the presses everyone - quick. Not that anyone cares, he's just bragging "Ha ha first I stole Digg's people, now I'm stealing DMOZ's." Whoopee. *props eyes open with toothpicks to finish reading this snoozer*
"Happy to see AOL is working on DMOZ again. I wish them well. [Ha ha, BUT...]
"We looked at the dataset and thought about using it as a starting point for Mahalo since it's GPL. However, when we looked at the linkrot and spam we decided it would actually be easier to start from scratch."
Ah. In other words, DMOZ sucks. Funny how he can't just spit it out. Another comment no one wanted to hear, BTW.
"You guys know a lot more about this than I do, but from what i understand it's filled with spam/SEO sites and all kinds of bad stuff." /end FUD
"Frankly, I think it's going to be hard to get folks to work for free on DMOZ in this era... good editors are needed on projects that will pay (or donate their fees like we do), so getting editors attention these days is harder."
In other words..."come to Mahalo. Come to Mahalo. NOW." This is what the rest of us call "subliminal advertising", only with a twist, since this used FUD and rumormongering as a subsconscious call to action.
"again, i wish them luck and if they do a good job cleaning it up we would consider using their dataset in some way."
So Mahalo is *too good* for DMOZ now. That was quick! Another unwarranted, unsubstantiated cut against his former employer's directory, which happnes to be the most well-known, highly trafficked directory on Earth. It's not too cool to badmouth your old boss's side ventures in public, but, you know, whatever.
Just keep on linkbaiting Mahao, god know we're all getting a big kick out of that.
Mahalo is a neat site. 1/40 the size of DMOZ and growing. You all should be very proud. Some day you too might have THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of editors and the global reach of ODP.
Then again, you might not.
But hey....while you're here and since you brought up the topic of Mahalo, SPAM and SPAM-ing...did you all ever fix that "auto-insert-submitted-links-as-top-suggestions-into-next-available-category" problem? quote below:
"...appear on the sidebar submitted links automatically? Is there no human generated filtering for submitted links going on? The link goes up before they check it? And if there is human generated filtering how did they mistake my t-shirts site with a make-up site? Does this make Mahalo “spammable”? "
I love the Hawaiin SPAM can BTW.
Cheers.
Quoting MarahMarie (who was, in part, quoting Jason with this):
" "Never got to meet the ODP/DMOZ folks while I was at AOL (was too busy working on Netscape and Weblogs, Inc.)."
No one asked, no one cares. "
Man, I hate the fact that I always seem to be sticking up for Calacanis here, but it irritates me when people let their prejudices blind them to actually READING the comments. In fact, MarahMarie, someone DID ask.
Taerose, only 2 comments prior, asked:
"I notice that Jason has appropriated the term also for Mahalo. Didn't he use to be part of AOL? Did he engage with DMOZ while he was there? Or was he reserving past experience and acquiring knowledge that was intended for a later independent try?"
MarahMarie!!! Good to find you here! Keep kicking my butt... you've been a great ombudsman for me for the past couple of years. I always know when I'm close to stepping over the line... you're my guardian angel. :-)
Burgo: some folks just hate to hate... the price you pay for an open, anonymous internet. :-)
DMOZ: In terms of people getting spam into Mahalo, user suggestions are allowed into the user suggested box, but not the main serp. So, it's sort of like delicious (where anyone suggest a link) + and edited directory (like DMOZ) where folks check the links. Our thinking was that anyone should be able to suggest, but those suggestions have to live in the "user recommend box" until we approve or ban them.
Sorry if that is not clear on the site... I thought it was, you're one of the only a few folks I've seen who didn't understand how that works. Users SUGGEST sites to us, then we make the hard editorial decision based on a serious of tests we've developed to evaluate sites (like, are they OK, bad, good, or great... :-).
As i've said my inspiration for Mahalo is: DMOZ + Wikipedia + Google + WeblogsInc + About.com. I've got a lot of respect for DMOZ.... consider this an open invite to any editors at DMOZ to work on Mahalo. Of course, we'll have to pay you--or you'll have to donate the money to Mozilla or Wikipedia.
A bigger question that will come up with DMOZ as an AOL property is should people work for free for a big company like TimeWarner which will benefit from that free labor in a major way. It's the same issue Wikia faces: people are going to work for free to make other folks money?
At Wikipedia it's a non-profit so you don't have the issue (as much).
user recommend box" until we approve or ban them."
Got it.
Why do that without posting the context you outlined above somewhere in the SERP. You described it fairly well above. Seems posting even that amount of context as a hover to the suggested links header would clear up a lot of consusion and cut down on the reocurring "Mahalo is easy to SPAM" claims. Maybe...
"BEFORE YOU CLICK - you should know these results have not been reviewed by any of our editors. They might be dangerous and we have no idea what they are or where they go. Mahalo!"
And thanks ( again ) for the invite.
But I think you have gotten the 4-5 editors you're going to get with Pay Per SERP / iPods / tShirt offers. You also left WikiHow.com off the clone / influence list above. Great site full of how-tos. Have you tried recruiting volunteers out of there?
Jason's gotta resort to trolling blogs about Dmoz to find editors? ROFL. Thought the big incentive plan was gonna take care of that need.
Meanwhile back on the actual topic... :-P
Glad to see staff taking the lead on the new blog. Looks like they plan to keep on subject. Good for them. Maybe they can impart info that might get lost in the fray when editors are in front. Kudos.
Robjones: we actually have more folks then we need right now, but I have a rule: ABR.
ALWAYS
BE
RECRUITING
You never know when one of those superstars is going to become available... maybe the best editor on DMOZ is reading this post and has never heard about Mahalo. Maybe they will now email me at jason at mahalo.com. Maybe they just did. :-)
DMOZ: We think folks understand what "top submitted links" means. I don't think we need to spell it out that much. That being said, maybe we do. frankly, the folks writing this immature "i spammed mahalo!" posts are generally trolls and/or blackhat SEOs trying to linkbaint. All of our user testing shows that people get what we're doing and LOVE IT! So, I build the product for the users, not the blackhat SEO bloggers who have it in for me. *
* Note: they have it in for me with good reason: a) I called SEO bullsh@#$t and b) if Mahalo works it's the end of SEO as an industry. There is no algorythm to optimize at Mahalo.... Only humans with really good judgement. :-)
ABR...nice.
Checked out Alexa lately? Where should we send the steak knives? : )
On a serious note, we totally get the whole bloggers making stuff up about you for linkbait. Believe me, we get it. Best of luck to you guys moving forward and thanks for stopping by.
Jason Calacanis wrote:
AOL might profit... but Google might profit, too, they´re DMOZ data users... and Microsoft... and Yahoo, and a whole lot of other search engines. And every search start-up that choses to use DMOZ data, and every scientist who needs directory data for research purposes. You can find an overview on ODP data use here.
You keep forgetting there´s one big - very big - difference between DMOZ and Wikipedia on the one hand, and projects like Mahalo on the other: DMOZ and Wikipedia are both Open Content.
A volunteer who invests his time in DMOZ, or Wikipedia, produces data that are available to the whole net community, under a free use license. A volunteer who invests his time in Mahalo and similar projects, on the other hand, produces data that can be used by the owner of this specific project and the users of this specific project... and maybe someone who licenses data from the said project, or developers who get access to parts of the data via APIs, too. But the data are not as freely available for integration in other tools, or for research purposes, as DMOZ and Wikipedia data. In many cases, the contributors can not even export their personal contributions... remembering how, when Zeal was shut down, the Zeal editors had no real chance to export their work...
Therefore, the payment that Mahalo offers is not – as you suggest - an additional incentive beyond what DMOZ and Wikipedia offer to their volunteers. It would be more appropriate to describe it as a compensation for renouncing rights that DMOZ and Wikipedia guarantee to their editors: the right of usage for the results of the collective work under an open content license, for themselves personally and for the whole web community.
Jason said: "You never know when one of those superstars is going to become available... maybe the best editor on DMOZ is reading this post..."
*rob blushes*
ROFL. Well, gee thanks, but I'm kinda busy right now.... :-)