News Source: http://www.seo-chicks.com
Published: Sep 07, 2008 - 12:45 pm
Story Found By: Lyndon 1720 Days ago
Category: Sphinn Zone
42 Comments
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News Source: http://www.seo-chicks.com
Published: Sep 07, 2008 - 12:45 pm
Story Found By: Lyndon 1720 Days ago
Category: Sphinn Zone
42 Comments
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Comments
Exceptionally well put. The bickering makes me less willing to Sphinn anything, in case by doing so I unwittingly pledge allegiance to one gang over another. I know it’s a cliche, but I genuinely get along with pretty much everyone and appreciate that everyone has their off days.
I think it’s a shame, because as professionals it’s useful to have a place we can share information and connect. But somehow the t**ts seem to ruin it and roam the place in rabid gangs, foaming at the mouth, wasting peoples time promoting sh**t.I absolutely have no problem with people debating and disagreeing, but when you get the c**ts, f**king up the place with idealogical bile and emotional immaturity it just gets tedious.
Great post by Julie. Particularly love Jane’s line “I didn’t understand it before, but now I do: Twitter is partially to blame. It’s the high school hallway to Sphinn’s cafeteria.” By the way, I’m running for homecoming queen. :-)
I haven’t noticed here on Sphinn "calling the person performing those actions horrible names or likening them to Nazis or KKK members?". Maybe on some other places, but not here on Sphinn. But I have noticed people having strong opinions and defend their positions in passion. In such discussions there should be some tolerance to describe some people performing specific actions by those same actions. It should be possible "to call a spade a spade"! And Lyndon, please don’t get so soft and super sensitive. You wouldn’t lose your appetite if someone called you during a hot debate about linkabait, for example; The King of Fake Linkbait Stories. Would you? :-)
Lyndon what is with the *** it reminds me of multiplayer shooters with parental control activated :) Don’t be shy say motherfucker on Sphinn the platform doesn’t censor you.
I’ve seen some massively passionate debates that are incredibly well handled...there are loads of people in the industry who have a lot of class, people whose opinions I may disagree with but whom I have the utmost respect for, not only for their knowledge and experience, but also for the dignity that they show, even when they’re being vilified for their viewpoints in an extremely juvenile manner. I don’t think Lyndon is being soft or super sensitive by the comment that he made, because, first of all if you’ve been following him at all, you’ve seen the amazing bits of nastiness that were directed his way. You’ve probably also seen professionals disagreeing with him without wanting to beat the crap out of him. There are some raging psychos out there, and they seemingly love to cover up the lack of knowledge that they have with increasing their public profiles simply by being controversial. I’m Southern, for god’s sake, and above all else we learn to have manners here, even when we’re calling someone a bitch, bless her heart. There is a lot to gain by showing passion, but when you can so easily see the lines forming behind a few of the major players out there, I don’t think anyone gets much benefit from it.
I wish I had the sense and the manners to bless someone’s heart whilst calling her a bitch, Julie :) I want to be like you when I grow up and I’m not being as facetious as I sound!
And regarding:[“I didn’t understand it before, but now I do: Twitter is partially to blame. It’s the high school hallway to Sphinn’s cafeteria.” Jane “Prom Queen” Copland]For many of us SEO/SEM folks, Twitter is the platform where we microblog, network and make friends, also with those we differ with on small or big matters related to SEO/SEM. Even there I haven’t noticed "calling the person performing those actions horrible names or likening them to Nazis or KKK members?"
Harith, you may not have noticed, but it’s definitely happened:http://www.google.com/search?q=kkk+%2Bsite%3Asphinn.com
Yes thanks Jill...I was about to say to Harith that anyone who has NOT noticed this kind of thing is quite lucky. I wish I HAD to make up instances where someone was compared to some horribly unsavory characters and groups but, sadly, I didn’t have that luxury.While this name-calling and bickering has been annoying and sad to witness, it has at least made me pay more attention to the people in the industry who dish it out and take it with class and humor.
Jill,I looked at the serps you mentioned. I can see only ONE thread where KKK was mentioned in an example by ONE member and in few comments. Should we judge the whole Sphinn community because of that?
I don’t think it’s fair to say that anyone is judging the whole Sphinn community by the KKK remark...if you refer to my post, you’ll see that I wasn’t outright mentioning Sphinn anyway. I’ve seen the same kind of thing in Twitter and on blog comments. The KKK example was indeed something that I saw on Sphinn, but I do recognize that the actions of the entire community cannot be judged by that. In addition to the Sphinn comments that have been quite nasty and personal, this kind of thing has been everywhere. As I said before, if you haven’t seen it, you’re lucky, or else you’ve not been hanging out in the same places I frequent.
Julie,"The KKK example was indeed something that I saw on Sphinn, but I do recognize that the actions of the entire community cannot be judged by that. "Thanks. Much apprecaited.
See? We’re all playing nicely and having a perfectly mature discussion without resorting to calling people names. Considering there are a couple of people on this comment thread who’ve been trashed for some really silly things, I think it’s quite obvious that Sphinn is not ONLY made up of troublesome types.
From Let’s Talk About Spaceships to Is this Really Where the Professionals Hang Out? Or, shall I say the male perspective on the female point-of-view? I believe that you lost a few things in the translation, Lyndon.
When you have any community where by it’s very nature the people are extremely competitive tempers are bound to flare. Then you have segments that cross the ethical lines for a dollar and names are bound to be called.If you want nice calm discussion, try a gardening club or a quilting bee.If you aren’t an organic gardener, you’ll get called names there too.
@ JohnHGohde : Lyndon just added his dynamic way of marketing a title tag to gain more eyeballs, not that the original title was weak in any way.
I think it’s quite clear that I don’t mind a knock around. However, I think there is a difference between silly nonsense and a serious, professional debate which furthers the collective knowledge.Gardening clubs and quilting bees are hobbies. I’m here to make money, not grow turnips or sew. This is supposed to be a place for professionals, arguing for it’s own sake is for amatuers.
If you’re here to make money, the best thread I’ve seen in quite some time, which impacts a great many sites, has almost no discussion whatsoever.http://sphinn.com/story/70678I figured it would be churning with discussion and suggestions but if you say too much you’re quickly giving away too much information that you wouldn’t want the competition to know so it’s very quiet.Either that or it’s over the heads of most readers, hard to say.
Let it never be said that I have ever stated in print that Sphinn is NOT for spamming websites. At that, Sphinn is pretty effective.
Anyone resorting to calling someone names over search marketing needs to take a moment to reconsider a lack of other priorities in their life. Come on, no one has total control over search algos, everyone wants to speculate to a extend and thats really as far as you can take it.
"After all those viewings of Bambi Meets Godzilla, you’re damned right I would."I thought that that Bambi video was quite funny, if not a tad old for a younger person to even remember.How about a Mars Attack quote?"Why can’t we work things out? Little people, why can’t we all just get along?"Then we can ask: Why do professionals have such thin skins?
@Incredibill that Netconcepts post is an atempt to justify a cloaking proxy, by placing it into context of advanced URL management as per Google’s expressed desires. Nice try, and certainly schooled writing on product site URL architecture. The real issues are indeed over people’s heads, and Netconcepts has my sympathy for having to deal with catalog merchants on the web, but on the face of it the article is about search results getting indexed -- oft-covered, old news.As for adding comments / giving away too much info, I agree. I know a few approaches cause I don’t sell that proxy service (I don’t need it) and no, I won’t share. Then again I don’t make SEO promises to the Cabellas and Land’s End’s of the world. I’m sure the money’s good, but without Google’s permission to use cloaking, the SEO grind must suck.
@Johnandrews - It wasn’t about just getting indexed, it was about getting over indexed to your own detriment using all the infinite product attribute filters that are the rage in many sites, particularly ecommerce. You don’t need cloaking to solve the problem they describe, it can be dealt with in a couple of trivial ways which I don’t need to go into since there is no obvious interest in the topic.
Not too get too off topic, but the retail site navigation should be very helpful to anyone dealing with those kinds of problems - I had a client with such issues and we did manage to overcome most of them using some of the methods described in the article. I suppose it is boring stuff to a lot of SEOs but this kind of messy complicated stuff is what I live for. Once you get these kinds of problems fixed the payoff can be huge.
For everyone out there who thinks that I’m simply upset because there is disagreement online, I’d like to congratulate you on being lucky or clueless enough to have not noticed several of the online fights that have indeed been out there and that have been VERY unprofessional and personal.
I see a lot of industry veterans acting very rude and condescending towards noobs here on sphinn. The supposed professionals seem to have plenty of time for a good laugh at others expense. I find it ironic considering that I can remember when many of you were on the forums years ago asking the same dumb questions you’re calling people clueless for asking now. This is an industry of fragile egos and inflated self-importance.
I see a lot of industry veterans acting very rude and condescending towards noobs here on sphinn.SEO’s are usually an incredibly welcoming bunch - get us all in a pub in leisure time and you can be guarranteed stimulating and interesting conversation for everybody at all levels.The problem isn’t those newer to the industry want to recap basics - that’s fine - it’s when these same people ignore the cutting edge stuff and try and turn the community into a back-slapping basic SEO article directory.If the bar is kept too low, no one’s interests are served. If the bar is allowed to go higher, everybody gets a chance to learn not simply from the news item, but from the conversations that arise.2c.
What other industry can a noob get feedback from high flying profesional? As the man once said, "there is a reason they are high flyers, they work harder than you do.Try starting a career in TV and see what happens when you contact Jonathon Ross with a question?I love it that I can mix with the big boys and girls, although not really a noob I still feel like one.
Being nice is like being frank, if you’re looking for nice frank people .. you’re looking in the wrong place.This is not a ’help’ forum like Google Webmaster Help Groups; it’s a community for web-proffessionals.I’d rather pour warm tea on my trousers than spend a penny in earnest...
The problem isn’t those newer to the industry want to recap basics - that’s fine - it’s when these same people ignore the cutting edge stuff and try and turn the community into a back-slapping basic SEO article directory.then we need more participation from advanced marketers...you can’t expect the sphinn community, most of whom are not seasoned search marketers, to be able to identify the cutting edge articles. pageoneresults showed in his "sphinn expose" a few months back that a very small percentage of registered sphinners actually contribute.
I really wish to avoid pointing out instances of amazing nastiness, but I do want to stress the fact that we’re not simply talking about vehement disagreement amongst professionals. As I’ve said, if you haven’t seen the pointedly hateful attacks that have zero to do with professional debate, you’re lucky, and I hope you remain unscathed by things of this nature. Honestly though, what is truly wrong with being a nice person? I can disagree with someone without having to call her a fat bitch. I can make a point without getting so personal that the recipient of my words isn’t reduced to tears. I’m all for spirited debate, and I think the majority of the industry feels the same way. The issue is that there are indeed many instances in which spirited debate becomes a bit frightening, and people begin hiding behind the web to say things they’d not say in person, most likely. I don’t think Sphinn is the wrong place to look for nice frank people, either. I think it’s full of people who don’t need to call attention to themselves or their views by waging wars based on being angry enough to say something only to cause harm.
@JulieJoyceI would be more interested in hearing more sphinn on your post then more of the above whine so about how great they view themselves to be in their own minds.I do not recall Sphinn announcing anywhere that it’s a community for web-professionals ONLY. Of course, I have a great old blog post that really nails on the head exactly what is going on in this sphinn.Any web professional who cannot knock out a greasemonkey script to filter out whoever they do not want to read ain’t much of a professional of anything, IMHO.
@JohnHGohde: you have a great old blog post? I hope it’s better written than your comment. I mean that with the utmost Southern politeness sprinkled with a dash of humor, too. My whining is done anyway. I’ve moved on to being upset about the singular lack of muffins that I’ve enjoyed today. Muffin-deprivation syndrome is the REAL evidence of evil in this world.
White Collar KKK http://learningseobasics.com/archives/701
Professionalism transcends the dialogue of disagreement here, or the choice of examples that someone may have used in a comment in a thread. Polite and pretty words can be more cutting and insincere than honest and passionate ones.Professional ethics involves a committment to the public good, and a responsibility to serve a client without harming the public, without working to intentionally mislead or deceive consumers for the sake of a fast buck.Professional behavior means standing up for values, for standards, for what is right.Professional behavior in a setting that holds itself forth as a place to promote and strengthen an industry means listening to each other with respect regardless of whether you’re a long time veteran or a relative newcomer or an interested outsider, even if you may take offense to the language used or the examples set forth.Professional behavior in that setting means moderating in as positive a manner as possible so that disagreements focus upon the topic and not the individual; it means trying to build bridges, and to encourage and support people; it means trying to temper disagreement rather than ignite it further.Professionalism goes beyond the clothes you wear and the words you use in a disagreement - at its heart is how you represent the profession. Are you helping build something positive with your words and actions, or are you promoting something that harms the public and the profession?
"the Lyndon thing", lol. Gimme a break.
>Professionalism...means trying to temper disagreement rather than ignite it furtherAmen to that. So can we stop now please.
A good example of professionalism from Eric Lander here:http://sphinn.com/story/71498
@JulieJoyce My Dr. House personality which I inherited from my Southern mother tells me that you couldn’t communicate in writing to save your life.My House humor is sprinkled with a dash of reality, too. Ever notice how House, MD always finds that the mystery illness is due to lifestyle factors? I certainly have.
"... you couldn’t communicate in writing to save your life."It is common for people to recognise traits in others that they themselves display.
I had to Google what you peeps were talking about. Old post anyway, so closing story.