Calendar
Network
Feeds
- 75
- Sphinn It!
Google PageRank Update, This Weekend!
Went Hot: September 27, 2008 - 1:06 am
Posted By: Harith 67 days ago
Topic Type: Discussion my network
Category: Google SEO
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/traveling-light-posting/#comment-133935
41 Comments
Who Sphunn This Topic?
-
Harith
-
miroxy
-
Maing
-
monitis
-
AffiliateDragon
-
jeffquipp
-
Raquel
-
skinner
-
UtahSEOpro
-
PixelBella
-
paisley
-
mpind
-
KateReuvers
-
LtDraper
-
Chris1
-
hjortur
-
TimDineen
-
ChrisLang
-
Lid
-
robwatts
-
joihie
-
eKstreme
-
pagetraffic
-
SearchBuzz
-
krumel
-
styletime
-
MattCutts
-
dobata
-
aimClear
-
abefrohman
-
JMorris
-
Makakman
-
warrenboswell
-
golyedevki
-
mercylivi
-
planetc1
-
Wulffy
-
shocs
-
KasumiDeMarco
-
g1smd
-
bayandidi
-
rustybrick
-
losangelesinternetmarketing
-
vitamincm1
-
lucio-dias-ribeiro
-
packetst0rm
-
clickfire
-
Phil
-
jasd2d
-
jgianoglio
-
footinmouthdisease
-
QualityGal
-
cellphones4us
-
andrey
-
MMATapout7
-
GlobalFusion
-
mbeharry
-
thinkingserious
-
BCCStu
-
martin
-
SEOAly
-
Xurxo
-
MikeDammann
-
Riquochet
-
dailymoolah
-
dao
-
MattKeegan
-
RaminZane
-
4cdawgs
-
firstwhitewolf
-
JemimaGarthwaiteSEO
-
rjonesx
-
SexySEO
-
yetanotherben
-
Dugdale
Comments
Project 10^100 how to change the world. $10 million dollars to the top ideas
Yep. It's happening now.
All my profiles and sites went up a notch, but that could be from simply acruing pagerank over time. Oddly enough most of my competition using social bookmarking / spam software sank yet another notch and dropped from the search engines (mostly).
I truly believe at this point, plus the changes I am seeing on Google, that this years Q3 update will become known as the social bookmarking slapdown. But then I am not an SEO pro, which is why I participate here. Any feedback you care to offer will certainly be welcome. Comment here or you can get back to me on my site.
Matt Cutts!
Thanks for the heads up. PageRank update is happening as you said. You are a man of your word :-)
And Google! keep those boost in PageRank coming to our large news sites. Thanks a bunch, GOOG :-)
wow.... when did this place turn into Digital Point? We're getting excited about a 'ToolBar PageRank Export'? Cause I am pretty sure Matt wasn't saying that actual PageRank was being given a facelift right?
Sigh...
ChrisLang, we're always trying to improve our link analysis with algorithmic changes to reduce the weight of paid links that pass PageRank or to better discern what types of links add lots of value to users.
I'm glad that new PageRanks showed up this weekend as expected; after this toolbar update, I expect us to get back to the normal 3-4 month cycle.
What is the new page rank? does that mean little publishers like me will not get a chance to show up based on the relevance of our content?
reviewmyplace, it's just a toolbar PageRank update. Even if you don't show much PageRank, Google still has 200+ other signals we use in our ranking. It's definitely common to see lower-PageRank sites ranking above higher-PageRank sites--which tends confuses the people who obsess too much about PageRank and who don't focus on other factors that search engines might use to rank pages.
I got another pixel of green fairy dust on one site, and lost a pixel on another site.
Matt Cutts,
Thank for chiming in with informative comments. Highly appreciated.
theGypsy
"We're getting excited about a 'ToolBar PageRank Export'?"
Those people who practice SEO as profissional might have noticed for sure that Google Toolbar PageRank is still considered as a factor monitored by clients and manegement of most companies. Reason is that Toolbar PageRank is taken into account when monitoring and comparing clients/companies sites with sites of compititors.
Moreover, many webmasters find Toolbar PageRank updates of interest. Thereore the related discussions on webmasters related forums.
And I really can't see what harm would discussing Google Toolbar PageRank update do to anybody ;-)
aimClear Blog ticked down from 5 to 4 overnight. Long live SEO :)
My personal blog dropped from 4 to 3 due to an extended period of inactivity, but my SEO nich blog went from 1 to 3, so I'm not going to complain. I haven't checked any of my deep pages, but I'm pretty sure there will be some gains.
Let's see if it's another roller coaster ride. ;)
I read on a forum that some paid links traders having hard time during the current toolbar PageRank update. Well.... those people have been warned since 2005 not to sell/buy backlinks ;-)
I'm not complaining either. Lots of our clients' sites did really well.
Can we assume: A drop in a site toolbar PR isn't always an indication that the site being penalized. However all penalized sites show a drop in toolbar PR?
Thanks for the heads up Matt Cutts
I was delighted to see my blog set up this summer get a page rank of 3, although I do try not to get to worked up about pagerank as I know there are many other factors to consider.
However there is no getting away from the fact that I like to monitor and watch pagerank with interest, which I'm sure many others do also.
PR updates are fast becoming those chain mails where Bill Gates promise you to pay $10k, if you forward them to 10 people :) Makes you feel nice but you know its pretty meaningless.
These threads always remind me of that scene in The Jerk with Steve Martin when the phone book comes out with his name in it..
The new phone books are in!!! The new phone books are in!!!
The Sims version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgU7j0JdQQo
Why people still give any weight whatsoever to PageRank is beyond me. There are much more important metrics to consider than a broken algorithm that can STILL be manipulated quite easily. Toolbar update or not, I just don't see the value in PageRank anymore. It's a shame so many "webmasters" still consider it a valid metric.
I love most of Google's services, but PageRank is not one of the ones I love.
Though they don't admit, most SEOes are using toolbar PR as an indicator. Trust me :-)
Matt, want peeps to 'stop obsessing' about it dude? Stop talking about it and ToolBar PR updates on the ol blog - you know how much excitement it whips up ;0)
Just sayin....
Harith, I understand it's a metric peeps use and that's cool... multiple metrics give additional data and that's all good with me. I just don't generally get worked up about it. It is a by-product of the process... dats all...
theGypsy,
"Harith, I understand it's a metric peeps use and that's cool... multiple metrics give additional data and that's all good with me."
Great! at least we agree on that part :-)
Now, I need your help on this one. If toolbar PageRank isn't that important, why some SEO gurus went whinning publicly for being penalized by Google when their sites/blogs dropped in toolbar PageRank during this year? I don't wish to mention names, but I'm sure you know at least one or two of them :-)
The issue wasn't so much that PR dropped, but the reason it dropped. When SERPs and high PR backlinks are up and your PR still drops, there's something wrong with the picture.
I'm pretty sure most SEOs will agree that the metric is, well, broken.
JMorris
"The issue wasn't so much that PR dropped, but the reason it dropped. When SERPs and high PR backlinks are up and your PR still drops, there's something wrong with the picture."
So the drop in toolbar PR was serving as an alert or indicator that there was something wrong (whatever that wrong thing was).
There in lies the question. When all other metrics indicate a PR boost to be expected, yet Google's metric drops PR, what is wrong with the metric?
Paid Links? Sure, I can see that one. Google has taken a hard line and we all know about it. What about sites that don't sell links? What about the sites that are just critical of Google? What about the SEOs who consistantly rank #1 in SERPs and have tons of high PR, quality, one-way backlinks, yet consistently get penalized?
Sorry, but I smell a fish. I'm not trying to be confrontational here. I'm just calling what I consider to be BS.
This is old news and we've all been debating it now for years. IMHO, the metric is broken and perpetuating its use is only degrading the web, not improving it. This is one case where "do no evil" comes with a stipulation, IMHO.
It's just my opinion, please take it with a grain of salt.
Would like to quote what Matt Cutts said "we're always trying to improve our link analysis with algorithmic changes to reduce the weight of paid links that pass PageRank or to better discern what types of links add lots of value to users."
Would like to highlight that part "better discern what types of links" - now thats what I would like somebody here to answer..what kind of links are the best or the most natural ones?
JMorris for President!
Or at least put him in charge of Page Rank. Or something.
"Matt, want peeps to 'stop obsessing' about it dude? Stop talking about it and ToolBar PR updates on the ol blog - you know how much excitement it whips up "
I wonder if the PR tool was Google's greatest invention. It serves no real point, but is something tangible. Give people something they can see and they believe it. I agree with theGypsy, stop mentioning it. Infact, if Google really wanted people to stop selling links for PR, disable PR!! Simply give everyone a PR10 or PR0.
Then people would only buy or sell links for their real traffic value?
This convo inspired me to write this SEO Prayer
All hail Google, who art in the cloud,
Blessed be thy name,
thy page rank come,
on my site as it is on Dmoz,
give us this day our daily link juice,
Forgive us our spam tactics,
as we forgive those who google bomb us,
lead us not into link buying temptation,
but deliver us from link farms.
For thine is the algorithm, and the PR
for ever and ever.
Amen.
For the sake of clarifying the relation between drop in toolbar PageRank and penalized sites, I asked Matt Cutts on "Ask a Google Engineer" the following question:
"Can we assume a drop in a site toolbar PR isn't always an indication the site being penalized, while all penalized sites show a drop in toolbar PR?"
Lets wait and see whether Matt would reply ;-)
I am afraid lower PR will costs many users and customers: Should I submit a press release in a web site with PR2 and pay for it? No I'd rather to go for a publisher with at least PR6.
PR is causing many unncessary problems for business owners and webmasters. May be an e-petition should help. If many webmasters ask Google to get rid of this page rank, Google might listen
If PR doesn't mean anything, who show it at all!
@aimClear,
"aimClear Blog ticked down from 5 to 4 overnight. Long live SEO :)"
Does that mean that your blog was ranking high based on SMO rather than SEO, and now you think SEO is more of a long term sustainable strategy?
Just curious ;)
My home page on SEOAly jumped from not registering (not PR0...actually no PR at all) to PR3 based on the toolbar in this latest update. Whether or not toolbar PR is meaningless, that made me grin first thing on a Monday morning. :)
FYI...
Matt Cutts has posted on "Ask a Google Engineer" very interesting comment about the current toolbar PageRank update:
"We definitely have worked to improve our paid-link and junk link detection algorithms. In our most recent PageRank update (9/27/2008) for example, there are some differences in PageRank because we've improved how we treat links, for example."
Thanks, Matt.
Google, just like so many Department Stores, likes to constantly shake things up. All that really accomplishes is to totally piss off their customers. Google needs to make up its mind as to what the rules are. And, to STOP constantly screwing with them!!!
I bet that the new TB PR will be replaced with something else all too soon. Google might as well be assigning PR randomly.
New is not better, Expected is best.
The rules change, because the abuses they detect are evolving all the time as people look for yet more new and creative ways to game the system for links.
For example, had Twitter not recently started adding the nofollow attribute to profile links, then Google would have undoubtably made that a factor in their future PR calculations and all people using that loophole would have seen a correction the next time toolbar PR was exported.
The issue isn't as much that Google is changing the PR algorithm to adapt to the changing needs of customers. That is to be expected and I would be equally irritated if they didn't adapt their algorithm from time to time to account for spam and such. Even though I'm adamently against Google's perversion of rel="nofollow", my irritation isn't even so much with that issue either. The issue is that, when all other factors are equal and a site has gained traffic, gained quality backlinks, has unique content, has deep SERPs and ranks #1 on many terms, yet some how the PR drops.
I won't use my own blog as an example as it is not a good one, but people like aimclear and Andy Beard are good examples (historically speaking anyways). All factors indicate a PR boost is due, but their PR drops. Why? Is Google blacklisting domains because of their reputation of being critical? Is it because of historical abuses that Google doesn't want to forgive? Why the drop when all factors indicate a boost is due? If the algo is truly computerized, where is the glitch in the program? Or, is it that certain sites are manually reviewed and the PR assigned is at the whim of a human whose personality can impact the site's ranking?
What's the real scoop on why sites that should keep the same PR or gain PR, but don't?
That, in a nutshell, is why I take issue with PageRank.
Hmmm... personally I think there are two PRs. One that is internal to Google which is the one actually used to calcualate results and one to make webmasters scratch their heads and provide a comic relief for Google engineers. I don't care if my TB PR changes unless that also changes the position in results. For instance SeoPros went from 7 to 6 and actually rose for some queries
There are factors such as dropped links (dead domains), network issues, links that are nofollowed after the fact and links that have lower authority than in previous updates. I do take these issues into consideration. This can account for some drop in PR, but not all. If those factors were the only reason, then it would be consistent and measurable. That is not always the case as many here can testify.
Is it truly possible that Google drops some sites PR just to generate a buzz or to get a rise out of certain people? Well, I suppose anything is possible, but I'm not inclined to believe such a thing. I think it is more likely that certain sites are either being manually reviewed by people with distinct personalities or there is a glitch in the program.
I personally pay little attention to PR. I prefer getting links from where the traffic is and from sites which look promising.
Nah, PR still matters to those not in the know, so it still needs to matter to those in the know. I'm not about to go out promoting the lack of value in PR to webmasters to help me get better links, so my PR still matters...