Calendar
Network
Feeds
- 42
- Sphinn It!
Went Hot: October 16, 2007 - 9:22 pm
Posted By: EricLander 326 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://www.searchenginejournal.com)
Category: Social Media
Stellar presentations today...
15 Comments
Comments
Neil makes a really good point. If you could redirect the energy you would normally spend seeking out porn and apply it to your own site and social networking, you'd have much more to show for your efforts.
Especially if your site is a porn site, then you have the best of both worlds :)
While I can appreciate that this is an attempt to make a vivid illustration of someone's likes, I think it's important to comment here that for many men, women and children whose lives have been adversley effected by pornography, pornography is equivalent to hate speech, so comments like Neil Patel's would be equivalent to someone using racism as a clever illustration. It may be that Patel is simply unaware of the fact that many consider objectifying people as an act of hatred against humanity, and it is therefor not a subject to joke about, any more than one would make jokes about slavery.
Miriam, I can certainly see your point, and I'm not trying to argue the ethics of pornography... but I really find the "pornography is equivalent to hate speech" statement hard to swallow.
Although, in thinking of more points to add here, I've realised that these waters are far too deep for me to tread :P
Burgo,
I really appreciate you replying. I agree, Sphinn is not a good place to have a discussion about this, but I thought it was important to at least mention that this comment is offensive to those who do consider pornography to be hate speech, as the author does not seem to be aware of this. For me, this would be like seeing someone oblivious to the fact that making jokes about Polish people is not a correct thing to do. It would be wrong, morally, to fail to point out to the author that they are making others uncomfortable. That was my intention.
Miriam
Personally, I wouldn't put a throwaway reference to pornography is in the same ballpark as racial hate speech, but I respect your opinion Miriam. Unfortunately, practically anything anyone says is likely to offend someone somewhere. What's considered acceptable - in forums and life - ultimately needs to be governed by general consensus, otherwise we "do nothing, say nothing and be nothing" while we tip-toe around everyone's sensibilities. It's good that you raised your point though, and I'm sure most people will try to take your views into account.
"pornography to be hate speech"
Miriam, I can see how some people might equate porn with hate speech. Some types of porn will go out of its way to demean women. But not all porn is like that, and to characterize porn in general as hate speech is inaccurate and does injustice to the whole adult industry. If you spend some time on some of the higher quality porn sites, you may realize that some porn is just an extension of what traditional art used to be:
http://www.canvaz.com/painters/nude1.htm
If these painters had digital cameras or HD video recorders, they would have created porn. Porn isn't just created by pervs; there are also artists creating porn in search for the ultimate in beauty and eroticism.
"Neil Patel Love Digg As Much as Fat Guys Love Pastries"
better?
moral or agenda based arguments aside, it's a great analogy
If he doesn't quit surfing Digg he'll go blind! (He's already got glasses.)
The comment is taken out of context. Neil was talking about how he is from a generation of young people raised with the Internet and while some of his peers (or even newcomers to the Internet) were gazing at porn sites, he was far more interested in social media, like Digg. This, to me, was his way of communicating his passion for his work. What drives him...
Hi Kim, :)
I can see that this is what the point of the remark is, yet my position remains the same in regards to the appropriateness of using this as a headline analogy, promoting the concept that 'normal' people love pornograhpy. This is a subject which, as you might guess, I have studied rather extensively, and the many works and studies I have read, and the abused children and women I have met and worked with, as well as the men I have known who suffer from pornography addiction indicate to me that it is unfortunate that a portion of our society would view such things as normal rather than incredibly harmful. At this point, this may be a minority view, but certainly, offending minorities is not something most of us would willingly do.
Hey Halfdeck,
I appreciate you weighing in. As you've shared a link with me, I will share one with you. You may have heard of Diana Russel, PHD. She is a graduate of Harvard, and since the 1970's has published numerous books and studies on the role of pornography in violence against women and children:
http://www.dianarussell.com/porntoc.html
I share this to further my point that, while my views may be minority views, they are held by a significant portion of the public.
There is currently a debate going on about the offensive anti-Muslim sentiments at Digital Point which have greatly upset both DP's Muslim users, as well as anyone there who believes anti-religious sentiments are not proper for public forums. By the same token, legislation is in place regarding the presence of pornography in the workplace.
Perhaps we have differing views as to whether sites like Sphinn or Digital Point or Cre8asite or SEOmoz, etc, are our workplace or our social hangout. This might be a good subject for discussion. Because my work all takes place on the Internet, industry sites are my workplace, and I do not want to see Muslims, Jews, Christians, Indians, African-Americans, First Nations Peoples, etc. having to wade through content that is hateful to them in the workplace. How do you all feel about this?
I think that is a rediculous statement by Neil in a professional context, but I do consider that his age and environment (college) are contributing factors. I do find it ironic that just yesterday, Sphinn was praising "women in SEO" and then today we are discussing porn (the polar opposite of praising women).
@haldfeck - I disagree. While the nude human body can be a form of art, pornograhpy in general is not art, and is usally degrading to women.
By the way, I don't know who is voting down people's comments on this thread. I want to say, it isn't me. My comments, halfdeck's, and burgo's have all received down votes. I'm not sure why. My hope is that, since we seem to have ended up discussing this, everyone should get to weigh in. I value hearing from each of you.
Miriam
Mirium, like I said, I concede that some porn is violent. My point is that you are putting every porn ever made into a single basket.
Diana Russel compiled a collection of one-sided examples without allowing an opposing viewpoint. She sites porn involving sexual violence, mutilation, sexual harrassment, incestuous rape. That's not mainstream porn. She is taking a sample of the most extreme cases and using that to represent an entire industry. That's called stereotyping. If she said *some* porn may encourage men to rape I wouldn't argue with that. If she said some porn *can* be harmful I'd say of course. But to say all porn leads men to rape is a gross misrepresentation.
It's like Google saying all paid links are evil. Some are, some aren't.
As for Sphinn, DP, etc, I think people have the right not to be exposed to porn. I also don't see the need for people to talk about porn on Sphinn. If the subject offends you, then I think the community should respect your feeling even if you're in the minority. If I was a mod at DP, I'd make sure offensive posts are pulled and members watch what they post.
But as much as you think porn is hate speech I also think your intolerance of porn is also a form of hate speech. You're putting everything in one basket and calling it evil.
OK, folks -- enough about the porn debate. Points made, responded to, but this isn't the place to get into a further debate over it, please.