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Michelle
What @ChrisMiller said. And I agree with the spirit of what is being said in the post. Separate but equal is inherently inequal. No matter where it comes from or in what form. So to have BlogHer - whether there is a BlogHim or not - I feel contributes to the ghettoization of the contributions of women overall - online and offline. And Michael's right - a BlogHim conference that excluded women (in appearance or fact) would have people up in arms. But it doesn't seem like BlogHer excluded men - sounds like it just didn't pander to them. The way it *seems* to pander to stereotypical female characterizations - shopping, babies, shoes, etc.
Now I wasn't there, and I don't blog - about anything (though one day, I do hope to have the time to setup my yourenothelping.com domain/blog). But when I heard that the activities surrounding the event focused primarily on ....shopping...I certainly felt no empowerment. And wondered how the women at the event could. I think women have cornered the market on topics surrounding babies, shopping, cooking, yadda yadda yadda. If we really want to empower women - and future generations of women - how bout encouraging an interest in math, science, and engineering, or civics in our girls? And highlight those contributions. Oh wait. That's not sexy. Not cute at all. We're so busy being distracted by the latest trends and magazine covers, well, who has time for anything else?
Ok, so veering back to my support of the article. Michael said that people need to focus on being the best at what they do irrespective of gender, race, color, ethnicity, etc. And I completely agree. When we stop carving out sectors and special groups, we will have equality. Until then, we'll be stuck with factions, that more often than not, ultimately prevent true eqaulity from ever happening. We can't tear down walls while busily building them up at the same time.
Other things that have gone on - specifically in this biz that really don't help move the needle toward equality (and seem to have escaped your ire Graywolf..) -
http://searchengineland.com/070402-073314.php - OMG! Women blog! Where's the "Blacks Who Blog" post? Or "Gays Who Gab"?? (and yes, I did ask this question at the time that was published) See? No one would ever write those latter two posts - they would rightly be seen as patronizing, condescending, or worse. But, um, I recall no outcry over the "Hey, Let's Prop Up the Women for A Day" post.
There are also groups in this industry, and article series that have been done, etc. that separate the men v. women in the field, and I fail to see how that really helps.
And don't even get me started on that whole seofangirl/menofseo thing. I've recently eaten. Um but again, crickets chirping. Everyone seems A-OK with that stuff. Why? It's the same thing, and it happens in your backyard.
Finally, one thing that surprised and disappointed me was some of the misogynystic comments being tweeted by women at the show. We really have to get it together folks. Can't have it both ways. Treat me as an equal, treat me special...don't attack women getting together to help women, but laugh along while I make snarky comments about the ones in the room with me.
I just don't get it. But I hope things will change. So again, what @ChrisMiller said :-)
Story: Unintended Consequences
@SpostareDuro - I'm struggling with how to respond to this. Your equating the mods here at Sphinn with the KKK so completely trivializes the horrors and diminishes the suffering by African Americans at the hands of the KKK, that I'm honestly left speechless.
@SpostareDuro - p1r was not "stifled" becuase "Sphinn's reputation was at stake." His account was terminated because of his continued hostile behavior to members of the Sphinn community. He was asked, prior to having his account closed, to abide by the common sense guidelines we ask all members to abide by. He decided not to.
And if we really believed "Sphinn's reputation was at stake," we'd probably be more interested in keeping him happy, than unhappy, right?
The information he presented was not revelatory. We are quite aware of the limitations of the Pligg software, and have significantly altered it's core for our own purposes as a result. There's no foolproof system out there. Ask Google. Ask Microsoft. Ask the DOD. Industrious people will always find a way in and around, and do what they can to exploit things.
Does spam hit the What's New page? Yes it does. Do we do a pretty good job of getting it off the page - yes we do. And contrary to what he would have you believe in the article - we're not getting inundated with bots. They are few and far between. And are dealt with upon detection.
The Sphinn platform is evolving and will continue to evolve (away from Pligg), but I don't hold out the fantasy that no matter how tightly we secure the borders, things won't slip by.
Hello @Spostareduro - I think you are correct - there are many people that never see or otherwise bother to read the guidelines we have set for the community. I've included links to them below, and will ask Rob, our editor, to do a post on the Sphinn blog to reiterate, reinforce, or simply point people to them once again. (All are linked from the "Help" link on every page)
Please note that while his user account was terminated for his behavior, this story still stands on Sphinn. So the insinuation that we are trying to keep something quiet is unfounded. He is free to publish at will, and users are free to Sphinn his stories at will. You may disagree and feel he is being treated unfairly, but if it were your stories that he was reporting as spam and desphinning in the manner that he was, you might feel differently.
As to the story you mention that was pulled, I am not the mod that pulled it so I cannot speak for the person that did. It is the weekend however, so perhaps you'll get a reply when everyone's back on Monday.
Thanks for the well wishes, hope you're having a good Sunday, and have a good week. I start my vacation tomorrow so will be AWOL for the week! :-)
Hmmmm. Can't figure out whether this is serious or all kidding so until I do, I'll throw out 2 giant stereotypes for thought -
1. Size matters to men. For the non-tech guys you know - ask them about the horsepower in their ride - they'll know. Ask your women friends? (sounds of crickets chirping) I see things like Twitter to be the tech-leaning guy's version of the same. I rather doubt our own Danny Sullivan could tell you the HP under the hood of his mini off the top of his head, but he knows how many followers he's got on any given day.
2. Relationships matter to women - actual relationships. Which is why we hear about the raw number of conquests from the likes of Gene Simmons and Wilt Chamberlin, as if it's some kind badge of honor. From women? Not so much. You're more likely to hear about the boyfriend, fiancee or husband than last night's forgotten romp.
As I said before - these are stereotypes. There are *always* deviations from the norm.
I backed away from making this a quality over quantity comment, but I think it bears considering. I'd rather have 3 really good friends than 30 random acquaintances. And I think the whole race for friends/followers/fans/whatever in any social media platform is just funny. I particularly love the myspace folks that have tens of thousands of 'friends'. Really? But how many of them will pick you up at the airport. Or bail you out of jail in the middle of the night? ;-)
So I really think it's just a horse race. And the whole "my list is bigger than your list" just resonates more with men than women, in general, for what are probably evolutionary reasons.
Story: McCain's Website Gaffes
I think Jason's on point here. I was frankly appalled to read the story on SEL as I think if the most serious criticism on usability of the site is the Javascript - then McCain's farther ahead in the field than I expected. Honestly - you think he has to worry about googlebot indexing his site? Go ahead, search it - seems like the bot managed to fight through it. And is that really the motivation of this "news" item? I doubt it. And golf gear? That's a huge marketing win!! Take a look at his base. His supporters aren't going to buy messenger bags and hoodies.
Presidential races are not run on nor do they rely on W3C compliant, usability certified web sites. Thank goodness. And I'm guessing there's nary a McCain supporter out there that knows what javascript is, much less how to disable it. Do you imagine swing voters are hitting that site and deciding on who to vote for based on the site architecture, or the swag? If so, we as a nation have much bigger problems than I imagined.
Story: McCain's Website Gaffes
@SEMChamp - I don't pretend to be a marketing genius, but I'm thinking an old, wealthy, conservative, republican, white guy selling golf gear to his old, wealthy, conservative, republican, white guy constituents is pretty much the opposite of bad branding. Please tell me how this is a mistake for him. In fact, I think it's interesting that everyone is keying in on that - and your calling it a mistake baffles me. This is his image. He is being true to his image and reaching out to his core base. So how this harms him or how it's bad marketing is lost on me.
As far as the usability, which should really be the issue here. Again, I think using his site vs. Obama's site, is weak. I think there are far many other sites that could be used if someone was really interested in tackling the subject of how site architecture and usability should be foremost the consideration. For example - Disney. Now there's a really interesting case - a site with truly broad appeal, spanning multiple demographics. Check out disney.com with javascript disabled. Now *there's* a problem. At least McCain's site still displays! I don't think the McCain v. Obama comparison was truly a study (or even a footnote) in usability issues. I think it was a thinly veiled political statement.
And for the record, I support neither candidate so I don't have a dog in that fight. And I think golf courses are a giant waste of land and water. Lest you think I'm just defending McCain - or golfers everywhere. ;-)
Story: McCain's Website Gaffes
I don't think you can have it both ways. Are you really advising that the site hide - or otherwise make less easy to find - what the core customers (his base) are looking for? That's awful usability.
Going with a traditional business analogy - are you suggesting he alienate repeat, existing customers (which comprise the majority of a business' income) in deference to hoping to acquire new customers, that may or may not ever walk through the door, and may or may not ever buy anything? Would you recommend Hot Topic remove the pictures of the pierced kids from their site so that the J. Crew crowd might shop there? I don't think you would. You're a really smart guy, and do really great work. That's why this article felt so off the mark to me.
Hi All - Dropping a note here to explain the problem with this one going Hot. We have a 2 day (48 hour) window from submission time to when a post can go Hot. This post was submitted (per the db timestamp) at 6:42am on 4/12. As of that same time this morning, there were only 16 sphinns. Sphinn number 17 came in at 12:37 pm and the other 20 followed thereafter. If an item has not gone hot within 48 hours of submission, regardless of number of sphinns, it never will, without moderator intervention.
The real problem is that items seem to be still displaying on the What's New page up to 3 days (disappearing at precisely 72 hours from the submission time). I'm going to look into that and correct it so that submissions disappear at 48 hours, and that should help end the confusion.
edit: When I say "disappear" - that doesn't mean the posts are discarded or removed, they simply fall off the "What's New" page. They can still be accessed directly, or via the Greatest Hits page.
Sphinn is not a dumping ground for any old blog post. Our guidelines specify the purpose and focus of the Sphinn community. The user that was banned - and that is now claiming mistreatment in the story that is sphunn here - submitted the following three entries, via 2 separate sphinn accounts - I defy you to find a shred of internet marketing related material in any of them.
Can't have it both ways folks. Expect good content and submit spam. And spam doesn't mean just the obvious viagara, auto parts, etc. spam. Continued submissions of off-topic content will result in your account getting banned. We've repeated this over and over. And as for the whining about not being notified? You're notified via our guidelines. You accept the "risks" when you submit - especially continually - off topic or blatant spam to Sphinn.
Sorry, not going give actual links - even nofollows - to a spammer that then goes on to claim innocence.
deloresdefacto dot com /?p=68
and /?p=65
and /?p=72
I think graywolf's points are tied to what Matt and Seanmag address about 'seostar' posts. stop feeding the monster (ego) - if an seostar submits low quality content - desphinn it. if they can't accept the criticism, are they really a 'star'? honestly, they know what they're doing when they submit stuff like that here - and i'm pretty sure they can take the heat if people call them out on it. Have the courage of your convictions (in posting and desphinning).
@gamermk - if a topic goes hot with a net sphinns count of 22, once it is hot, the other ratio kicks in and it takes (at the moment) 5 desphinns to knock it back. Using your example above, let's assume an item goes hot with 22 Sphinns (no desphinns); it would subsequently take 5 desphinns (and no additional sphinns) to kick it back to the What's New page. Once there, it now has a net sphinns count of 17, and will require 5 new sphinns to go hot again.
If the item has 22 sphinns and 5 desphinns - it's net is 17, and it needs to get 5 more sphinns, with no desphinns, to make it to the hot page. Essentially, it's the net sphinns count - at any given moment - that determines the status (hot or new) of a story.
At this point, I'm inclined to agree with going 1:1 and seeing what happens. For What's New anyway - not so sure about What's Hot - I think the potential for things to hop back and forth all day between the two pages needs to be considered. And if something is heading up, with a 1:1 ratio on the What's New page, it could be kept from going hot much more easily - if people will actually use the Desphinn button.
I've passed this thread to Rob and Danny to review and consider the ratio flip. I expect we'll hear from one or both shortly.
Desphinn ratio for What's New items is now 1:1 - so a Sphinn and a Desphinn have an equal effect on an upcoming story. Just remember folks, with great power comes great responsibility ;-)
Cmon Michael! Did we not settle this in Santa Clara? Picard wins hands down. Who would follow Kirk into a wormhole? Without Spock by his side, you'd never see the Enterprise again. For that matter, without Spock, Kirk would have been dead sometime early in season 1 of OST.
Danny, Janeway, really? Seriously. Lost in the Delta quadrant for how long? And only able to make her way out by selling out (humans and other species) to the Borg - and worse!? Some captain.
In picking a fave captain, I think of who I would most rather serve with or under. And that's Picard. Now if I were playing cowboys and indians and had to choose which captain I would rather *be* - ok, I would still choose Picard - though that example goes a long way in explaining why most men choose Kirk. If you want a fully dimensional, grown up captain though - Picard is the only one for the job.
Sexiest captain? Riker :-)
Wesley? 51 of 52? Junior didn't even make more than a cameo in 52 episodes! So he saves the ship a dozen (and seriously, it was no more than a dozen) times... that's just Picard empowering his people, in the event of his absence, to save the ship - cause Picard was usually off doing the tough "save the universe" stuff. Kirk faced with the Q? Do you really think humanity would have been saved?
But you're right - Patrick Stewart performing A Christmas Carol - awesome!! I keep hoping he'll do it again, but alas. And nothing was funnier than when he did the Extras episode. That was genius! Seems we can agree that he's the best actor of the captains :-)
@Matt - I'm not sure we want to penalize submitters of good content by taking away votes on their articles, because whomever voted for a good article then goes on to submit spam to Sphinn. It's penalizing two for the actions of one. Killspamming is generally targeted at removing content spam - it's more rare that we are killspamming puppet accounts and those are easily noticed anyway.
Also, I've not run the numbers, but probably over 90% of the stuff we killspam and the accounts we disable have only done one thing - submitted spam - usually just one or two articles. No votes, no comments, they are drive by spammers. But if the consensus is - remove their votes too - yep, easily done.
@gabs - Pligg doesn't do a lot of what we have Sphinn doing ;-) And we've already significantly customized the way killspam works so adding in the vote removal wouldn't be an issue - but I don't think we'll be doing that for the reasons outlined above.
@Charlie and Burgo - I edited the link for you so it points to the mozilla post. Also, made your comment link embedded as it was trailing off the page.
And now we can all have fun doing the math. Numbers are up for all to see.
Thanks Lyndon for getting this conversation going. And for advocating the responsible use of Desphinn.
It's interesting because we've been lobbied on both sides of this issue. In fact, we've been lobbied for a good deal more - some things that would lessen the democratic atmosphere here. Talk of "power users" or "authority users" or other means to enable some select members to have more influence. I think these types of things are far worse for a community than a button that can be similarly used by all - with the same effects regardless of who it is used by.
@Bill - Great points, all valid, but as Rand mentioned, it cuts both ways. Also, note that we limit the length of a desphinn comment. We'd much prefer that people use the comments to discuss a topic, than use Desphinn (submit more than 200 chars and you'll see our message about doing just that). Desphinn is not intended to replace discussion of topics in comments.
@Miriam - I sincerely appreciate your points about the nature of the discourse at social sites. I'm often appalled - seriously folks, appalled ;-) - by some of the things said here at Sphinn. Not just because it is often inappropriately personal and diminishes the overall quality of any argument - but also because I know, without a doubt - that if that person were standing in front of me having the same discussion, he/she would not say much of what gets typed. And I can't suffer cowards - much less rude ones. The Desphinn button has no influence on that type of behavior though - that's an individual's decision.
Even more central to the Montessori method is each individual's personal responsibility for his/her behavior within a community. We are providing a community, and are asking that people in that community respect one another - and agree or disagree in a civil manner.
So to further Lyndon's point - guns don't kill people...people do. Ok, not the best analogy but...
We're providing tools for people to submit information and then express opinions about such information. And we're giving this community the benefit of the doubt that they will be used properly. (Largely they have) But we have mechanisms in place if they are not.
The problem is that whether or not the desphinn button exists, unpleasant discourse will happen. It's unfortunate, but again, goes to personal responsibility, not to the existence of a button.
@SexySEO - I don't think anyone needs to alter their style of writing - or fear being marked negatively. You put yourself out there, for better or for worse, when publising in any medium. Not everyone will like it, or agree. And that's ok. I'm sure you don't really expect them to. But isn't the founding principle of the Internet the open and free flow of information and exchange of ideas? And no silent censorship here - precisely why we require a comment - and public ownership of the down vote.
We're watching how this feature gets used - and if it becomes an overall negative for the growth of Sphinn or the quality of the community here - we'll yank it. It's literally an on/off button.
@aimClear - I guess what I'm saying, Marty, is that reputation type features *can* be dangerous. They don't have to be. It really depends on the community, and the algorithm - what set of behaviors gives person A a better reputation than person B? What set of behaviors knocks that reputation score back a bit? Which variables are more important than the others, hwo should they be weighted? And how easily gamed is it?
And on the flip side, why is it important - really? I could do the math on how Sphinn users stack up using the algo we've got to create reputation ranking and profiles for our users. Do you think the user's ranking would really reflect the quality of his/her content and participation? Maybe. But maybe not. Also, once you build a heirarchical system and are no longer dealing with a flat and fair landscape - how does that change and shape user participation, motivation, and community growth?
We've got a lot of experts here, a lot of newbies, a lot of people in between - and everyone with something valuable to add. Do people really need gold stars that badly??
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong ;-)
Honestly, I think recognition for users that contribute regularly and are active in the community is really very important - and all kidding aside, I think having gold stars next the username or something like that would be fine. But having the stars translate into more "power" at the site...that's when you get into the murky waters of gaming, back-scratching, etc. and honestly - have a look at the other sites - has the content really improved as a result of such things? Has anything ever been made better by a small group at the top having more X, Y, or Z than the rest? < / naivete >
Story: Desphinn Feature Now Live
Yes, the javascript was updated. A hard browser refresh will be required.
Story: Desphinn Feature Now Live
All - looking into the buttons problems now. Will have the fix shortly. I recommend deactivating the plugin for the time being, esp. if it appears an all of your posts. Once the issue is resolved, I will post an update here.
Story: Desphinn Feature Now Live
The external sphinn site buttons should be working for all now. Please let me know if you're still seeing a fatal error (or even a non-fatal error ;-)
@mike - What are you talking about? Shoemoney has not been banned at Sphinn.
@gamermk - I'm with you (and shoemoney). I don't get it. I think it's related to 'need to know' and 'need to share' by people. Or rampant narcissism. Not sure which ;-)
Story: Is the BlogHer Conference Guilty of Sex Discrimination?