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SportsGuy
SEs and real life - soft collision, but still a collision.
I've found that working online (in general) has enabled me to reach out to all corners of the Earth to meet people - which I like to do.
The engines have thus helped empower a slide in localized relationships for me, with a couple of exceptions.
More than ever, when it comes to seeking info, I simply search. I don't call friends or family to ask advice. I discuss it with my wife, then we search and read up on the results, forming a much broader - and hopefully, more worldly - view on the topic at hand. Having started as mostly a novelty way of telling me I was right by looking for similar thinking, it's now the way we vett things.
A recent conversation with a real estate agent had them prattling on about how many listings they had in my neighborhood, and thus should have mine too. A quick search online netted the facts. They had only recently got their license, only recently started actually selling, and none of their current listings had been sold. As well, they did not have a website of their own.
Not a huge deal, I'll grant you, but to me, a deadend. If you don't feel it's worth having a website in your own marketing mix, how can I trust you'll get the marking mix right for me to sell my home.
The fact is, I see engines as a non-interested 3rd party. I ask the question, they fetch the answer. I think, by-and-large, the main engines get it mostly right, but they all mess up from time to time. Still, I'll trust the technology over the friends I grew up with every time. Still love the lads, but I'm guessing Google possess access to more experience on any given topic...save partying, that's another matter completely!
Now, though engines have managed to help me feel a bit more withdrawn from society (why call and talk to a human when you can read at your leisure??), specific instances come to mind when the engines have actually built new relationshsips. No, this is not a plug for some online dating service...
Upon deciding I wanted to buy a Volkswagen TDI, I went in search of an online community. The engines dropped me smack dab into the largest TDI owners community online. From there I not only learned new things, but met other local owners - we now all meet every month or so to work on our cars and have a couple of beer - great group of people, and a couple of the greatest friends ever as a result of that one search.
Photography, same thing. Jeeps and offroading, ditto.
Many I know think it odd that I can form friendships via website I found by searching. I say search engines allow for the finding of the groups with the most passion on a given topic. ...and there's a kind of safety in knowing you don't really know anyone, really. If you are an avatar, you can come and go as you please. You can contribute or lurk as you want, with no overt pressure to find time to keep a relationship going.
I watch my friends children interact with search engines. Wth me, I learned it from day one when the engines came into being. Still learning how best to use them today, in fact. Those kids, though. To them, it's almost hard-wired to use search engines to learn things or find things. I watched a friend last week reach for the yellow pages to look up a number. His daughter chuckled and in a few seconds, was rattling off the number to the local pizza joint (as found by Google). He just shrugged and picked up the phone. I laughed a little and couldn't help notice that a part of the future is here now, thanks to the engine's ability to give us data when we want it.
Mike, while your example may be factual and in relation to the point, I think it's also not representative of the vast majority of cases. Sure, this one person kept this one site live for no good reason and G ranked it well, longer. But really, in the bigger picture, the sites that rank don't tend to fall into that example category.
That said, in the real estate segment, there is still a lot of spamming going on, so it's likely that vertical may show more odd results than some other categories.
On this point, I have to say I'm on the side of NOT having the content expire.
When viewed on scale, the engines do a decent job of returning what's relevant to most people, most of the time. Not sure that search - as a vehicle - is the be-all-to-end-all way of conveying information to the right person at the right time, but until a system exists that could support such targeting in real time, search is what we got.
On this topic, I'm in agreement. I have never felt rankings are a metric. They simply are not, and if you are focused on them as a meaningful, decision making item, you're missing the bigger picture.
Watch for results - those pesky litttle things like conversions, or actions or whatever you want to have happen when users come to your site. If the SE traffic coming to you is converting, you're on the right track.
Rankings, like pagerank, is nice to look at, but not very meaningful...with one obvious exception:
If you rank #97 for your chosen term, you'd best use that as a cue to get your a$$ in gear and fix things. ;)
Bill is a great fellow - hence him being selected for this series. :) Watch for other talented inhouse professionals to be included in this series.
...or we can begin calling it something else - like website optimization work (WOW!) or webpage optimization tips (wot - sucks, I know... :( )
I recall an olde conversation that SEO wasn't really the most directly applicable description for the work most of us do these days - and looking forward, it stands to change even more.
I know in my day, to actually get "seo" done, I spend more time tripping over so many other things that I'd class as "product management" that it's a wonder any "seo" ever gets done.
Let's face it - the work we do impacts far more than just rankings in search engines:
1 - resource allocation on the programming side
2 - finance - direct to revenue
3 - business development & partnership management
4 - site taxonomies
5 - content development
etc., etc.
To continue to call what we as "SEOs" do as "SEO is a bit narrow of focus, IMO.
But, so it shall be I suppose - in the larger scope of the world, even SEO is still mostly unknown...LOL
I say go ahead, get the trademark - and enjoy the ride trying to enforce it everywhere, because having the mark is one thing, being able to enforce it, well, that's another thing completely - and if you don't inforce those things vigorously, well, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot then.
Story: We Don't Need SEO Standards!
Sorry, Jill - I disagree.
In fact, the sooner this industry gets standards, the better, IMO. The search industry is fine, it seems, to plod along as is. Those who know, do - and make good money doing. But, where is the investment in the industry itself?
If all we all do is take, what happens down the road? Many would say, "Who cares? I got mine..."
I'm the type of person who does care. Altruistic as it sounds, I do believe in helping the industry grow and I think standards would enable the search industry to take a critical - and dneeded - step forward as a legit slice of the pie.
Right now we all live in our small world of SEO-this and SEM-that - we know the players, we know the space, etc. Trouble is, there's so few of us (relatively) that we'd hardly amount to a blip on the radar.
So, with all the money coming online in the coming years, there's every chance that those ocntroling those budgets will want proof that their money is wisely invested...and having testimonials on websites won't likely be the big ticket answer to securing a large slice of that extar 40% or so GM is throwing into online v. traditional media next year.
Saying "I'm white hat" seems so... 'from the sandbox'. Like someone claiming legitimacy out loud, if you will.
Standards would allow the industry as a whole to claim a stake at the marketing table. PR is a stand alone discipline - hell, there are dedicated courses and schools for this one area of marketing. SEO/SEM skill sets are, I'd argue, even more laser focused than PR skills, but without the broader recognition that standards allow, everyone is bound by "decency" to rep themselves in a sea of static.
Geez, I've been doing this stuff over 7 years now and I still find that most time when someone says an agency name, I've never heard fo them - and as an in-houser, I've been pitched by too many to recall.
A Yahoo logo, or GAP certifcation is one step, but those, plus many of the training programs online today, should all roll up towards something bigger.
We all know the best practices of search, so rationally speaking, if the engines agree to the standards, and work on furture changes that work with those standards, we'd be in a better place.
Is it a tough job - hell yes. Is it going to happen quickly, hell no.
Does it need to happen - absolutely... and as the old arguement goes, if the industry doesn't police itself, someone's bound to step in and do it for us.
So, would you rather help craft the standards, know & support those doing the work, or leave it up to the "Respected representative from the great state of Iowa" to manage this for us? Because we know his 112 years of congressional service will undoubtedly have helped him become an SEM expert. ;)
*Please keep in mind folks - I have nothing but respect for Jill - this post is a counterpoint to challenge thinking on this topic, NOT anything personal. :) Jill answered many a question for me back in the day at SES shows, and I still owe thanks for her helping me to learn the basics. :)
Awesome article Andrew - and, so, to Danny goes the nod for an excellent presentation (I wasn't there, and Andrews style made me feel slightly embarrassed that I missed the event - the keynote sounds that good.).
Excellent points to ponder, too, for those doing search work today - there lies a balance within everyhting 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 and so on - every day brings potential change to the algorithms to cope with advances made by those trying to out smart them.
Here's hoping this path signals a maturing for the industry as well. Hacks need not apply in today's search marketing landscape...
Duane
I was in stitches listening to the soundtrack...LOL
...and now how can I keep a straight face in my meeting next week with Ivan S M Filho? I'll be hearing Whitesnake when he talks...LOL
Tom - simply - and sadly - and over sight on my part. :(
Dropping in seomoz for balance:
http://www.seomoz.org/marketplace/jobs/type/full_time
southwest - My focus was on stand alone training when speaking on that point. Dedicated internal training provides specific knowledge on that given platform, though lacks, perhaps, a wider breadth of exposure for a student.
I fully support folks understanding them, but feel a broader understanding - not brand-specific - is more beneficial.
I will offer kudos to those pursuing both avenues, though. ;)
Duane
Hi Natasha - just wanted to address your point.
Sadly, when we prepped the locations for the survey, we went VERY granular - like offering up a couple hundred individual cities that folks could choose from. When I built the question, I thought this was the way to go.
In hindsight, the error is clear now. :(
The data collected in any given sity is so small that's it's tough to find it useful - literally there are places with 1 person listed - not really a baseline for an average if you were to, say, chat your direct report up on the topic of compensation... ;) Most cities in the list have ZERO responses...
Next year we're going to cobine cities into more regional groupings - with obvious break outs for larger places like NYC, LA, DFW, etc.
Sorry about this folks.
Duane Forrester
Thanks guys.
Interestingly, I haven't read either of the posts mentioned by spinndr... I'm simply in the middle of a career change myself... :) Now I need to go find those posts.
Duane
Happy Birthday SEL!!! Congrats to everyone, inside and out, for making SEL all that it is today! Thanks to everyone who continually shares their knowledge, too. Hope it's a good one gang.
Duane
This is excellent news! Congrats to Vanessa, Rebecca and everyone at SEL/Sphinn on this great move!
Duane
LOVE IT! Nice work folks. ...I was shocked at the calculated value of my own blog - who'd have thought...LOL
Tempting to put the glory badge up for kicks, too...
Sphunn because it's true. :) Nice one Dosh!
I've worked for years building my brand online. It's not like it's paid of in term so dollars (yet), but it's made a big difference in my networking - which pays dividends of it's own. :) Folks need to pay attention to this stuff.
Here's an example:
About 2 months ago a poster came to a place I mod at and asked us to remove some select past posts of his. He said he was applying for a job, and when you googled his name, those oh-so-old posts from our forum came up at the top of the results.
Not really a big problem, but since those posts were made years ago, when he was new and didn't know what he knows today, he felt it reflected negatvely on him and would we help him out?
So, there's an exmaple for folks to consider - cached pages in search engines stick around for a long time, so think carefully before committing things to text online withyour name on them.
I've loved LinkedIn since it started. Excellent place for business networing, though it was a bit slow to start. Still, I suppose that's how most sites trend.
BWAHAHAHA! Loved it!
Sadly, it accurately reflects many people's current discussions in light of this recent movement on G's part.
Well, there is an upside - now folks will be able to start trackign all those links and defining traffic volumes/debunking myths around which ads perform better on their sites for advertisers.
Hmmm...
# 5 The speakers don’t want to talk to you … right away.
Those 10 people who rush to the podium to “network” with the speaker or ask questions right after the presentation are only preventing him or her from taking a deep breath and going to pee. My bet is their business cards get tossed first.
I'm not sure it's quite THAT bad - I mean, I never tossed anyone's card because they didn't let me go pee..., but I can agree that yeah, give the presenters a minute - literally, one minute.
We understand that you have another session to attend - and maybe that's a lesson to show presenters to ALLOW more time between sessions... - but we need to wrap up our gear and shift gears mentally (we need to be elsewhere next, too, you know).
The only thing that rots me is the "networker" who dominates your time - ask your question, note the answer and let the next person speak - that crowd in front of the podium probably isn't there to listen to YOUR question...
Why is it that in McDonalds, we all get in line and wait our turn. Yet at a conference, folks are ready to climb on top of a stranger to get their question answered next. I guess the primal need for food is less important to a human than the primal need to ask an SEO question these days... ;)
Hmmm - Search as a genetic mutation - interesting...
Duane
No idea - It didn't warn me when I was posting, and the other sphinn was about 15 minutes ahead of me - I went back to delete it, but didn't see a control to allow me to, so I was hoping an admin would see the dupe and remove it.
Duane
Sorry for that zachary. My thinking was that many who would be drawn to such a documant would either understand the topic already and gloss over most of it, or be so new that slight explanations that "SERP" referenced a page might be appropriate. ;)
Duane
I'm studying to get my Green Hat - I'm hoping to corner the market in "environmentally friendly SEO".
Right now I'm goign for a fititng of my purple pants to wear with the hat! ;)
Hats matter less than quality of work.
Black poses a problm in that theydefine and abuse tactic that many white hats *could* use legitimately.
Plus, with only 10 space son the average SERP page, it can be tough to out manuever the black hats to the top spots.
I'm not too concened about the "hat" debate, but I am very concerned about the quality of folks out there...and of those taking "quicky" training courses and thinking they are "instant experts".
I've got three folks to rave about! ...in no order really...
Jessica Bowman - About to become a Yahooligan, I've known Jessica for a few years now. She's an excellent SEO, and knows the value of building relationships to get the work she needs done. I am pleased to say I have her number in my cell phone. :) She's the sort of person you can easily talk to and who's friendship you come to value quickly.
Rose Sylvia - aka FlyingRose (of ppcThink.com and a mod with me over at SearchEngineForums.com) - Rose has a deep sense of loyalty and is happy to help folks who are honest and willing to help others themselves. She is one of the best PPC account managers I've ever encountered and she has an intrinsic knack for getiting the insdie track on juicy concepts and new ideas. When Rose pings, I answer.
Bill Hartzer - conference speaker, SEO and generally a bottomless, ever-renewing source of anything social and SEO - I first encountered Bill at SearchEngineForums.com where he's the Admin. I was told once (by Rose) - if Bills starts to share ideas with you, take notes - his ideas are worth money! A couple years later we communicate almost daily and I'm waiting for the next chance we meet so I can buy the man a HUGE steak to say thanks for all the tips and advice he's shared over the years. Bill is also the guy who uttered the fateful words that spurred me to write my book - which was picked up by McGraw-Hill and will be out in December.
I could rave about others, but for now, those are three from me.
Excellent idea, this topic! Thanks Christian!
Duane
Story: Search Life Meets Real Life -- Tell Me Your Thoughts!