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Thanks guys.
Lee, I'm with you on this. I've been moving more and more into the Social Media world (not the SEO Social Media World, but the Social Media world) in the last year and I'm amazed at the misunderstandings on both sides.
I remember when the SEO world first started jumping on the SM bandwagon. 90% of them defined social media as "getting a site to the front page of Digg." 10% looked a little further and about 5% understood the value of building conversation and reaping the side benefits of increased links as a bonus.
I'm seeing more and more people in the SEO world really start to "get it" and I'm seeing more social media types begin to understand the value of a search friendly site.
I've heard from Lenovo's VP of Web Marketing and he said he'll be writing a response when he returns home from Japan next week. I have no doubt there were good reasons for much of what they didn't do that was on my list (especially the expanded content and interactivity) but I dont' really think there's ever a reason beyond ignorance for not making a non-password site indexable.
Ammon,
I think you make an excellent point here. There's this fine line between using social media to recreate that personal involvement while expanding your geographical circle and using social media to "hide".
It's interesting to me to see my own change in this realm even just in the last six months. I've been in this industry for a long time and I know a LOT of folks who are scattered around the globe. I've met a huge portion of them at shows and in my travels, but still...the majority of my "social media" conversations happen with people I can't have coffee with on an average morning.
In the last month or so, I've been making a concentrated effort to see out folks in my own area on Twitter. I've probably added about 75 Columbus and Ohio Twitter users to the mix and have been talking to them regularly. Last month, I did a local show and had a chance to meet half a dozen of them. I've already got lunch dates scheduled with a few more.
I think it's a hard balance on the local/in-person networking and the online networking. Everyone sort of has to find their own way, but I think it's crystal clear that the winners in "social media" will be the companies who foster conversation instead of the ones who push sales.
Agreed and I think we've seen a lot of it lately in our industry.
I hadn't read my post since I originally wrote it. Going back and reading it a year later, I really did do some wincing. While it was easy to say "wow, I was kind of witty, cool!" it was also impossible to avoid thinking "holy cow, that was mean!"
I'm as hard on PR types as the next person when it comes to bad pitching and bad blogger relations, but when we're going on the attack like this, you can hardly blame them for going defensive or choosing not to speak with us.
It's easy for bloggers to point the finger at PR types, but I think what it all comes down to is the idea that there needs to be some growth and some understanding on both sides.
Yep, the first go round took a look of effort on the pushing sign-ups front, but I have a feeling the second one is going to be easier. It's been five days since I came home and I'm still waiting to come down off the high of this show.
I think there's true value in "feeder shows" like this one and like what you were doing with High Rankings Seminars. Ones that let the true beginners come in and get a solid foundation from a handful of speakers. I talked to many attendees at our show who are now quite ready to head to an SMX and SES or a PubCon and who will really be able to digest the information they get there.
Lee,
I'm with Matt on this. I see HUGE value in SES/SMX/Pubcon as shows. I wouldn't speak at them and promote them on my blog othewise. But the value I see there is threefold.
1.) Giant networking - the chance to meet a broad range of people and get to know them a tiny bit. Breadth instead of depth, if you will.
2.) Expo halls. The chance to view and sample a wide range of companies, to get their spiel in person and then to head home and research them more thoroughly.
3.) Keeping up on changing trends in an industry you are already familiar with. The sessions at these shows are often "speciality" topics with a variety of speakers offering up a variety of view points. That's great for those who know enough to realize they're getting a wide range of viewpoints and they'll need to take what fits. Not so good for the folks who were sent by their company with a "go learn SEO" task.
I mentioned above that I see the value of shows like mine for those who are new to the industry, but that I also see value in them "growing out" of the small conference and heading to larger shows. In fact, we've already spoken to three people from our show who have now registered for SES San Jose to go get the broader perspective. I know of two others who were looking at some of the SMX speciality shows.
"Matt and Jen, you have a vested interest in agreeing with each other and that's fine."
Not sure why? Just because he spoke at the show?
Lee, I've never said there isn't value to big shows. As I've mentioned, we've already talked three attendees into signing up for SES San Jose. In fact, when i sent out our after-show email, I suggested they check out SES, SMX and Pubcon for future shows.
The point we're trying to make is that a show like what we put on is ideal for a FIRST conference, especially for the small business owner. I built this show after years of talking to folks at the big shows who had that deer in the headlights look. Their experience was exactly what Anita described. You can say it's their own fault, but keep in mind that's easy to say from our perspective. You and I can walk in a room at an SEO conference and always know at least one person. Even if we don't, chances are high someone there knows us.
The same isn't true for the person trying to sort things out for the first time.
In my mind, there has long been a need for those like ours and the ones Jill put on. People get a soft, easy intro to the industry and a soft, easy intro to the conference circuit. I've already made dinner plans for San Jose with people I met for the first time at Unleashed. I'll introduce them to the people I know, and they'll have met enough people to feel confident meeting more on their own.
I may not agree with Matt's title (because I think the "big" shows are essential to this industry) in a literal sense, but from the amount of work I do with small business owners, I KNOW that education is generally their absolute top priority when they are attending shows. From that sense, a show like ours was an idea starting point.
I was invited to this (for my hobby site) but couldn't attend because it ran the same time as Blog Her Business and Blogger Social. Part of me said it's not really my style of event (and it's not) but the other part of me very much wanted to attend just to see how they ran and handled it.
The pre-show invitation fiasco was a nightmare. Inviting moms of week old babies, but expecting them to leave baby behind? Clearly they needed to do a little more research on their target audience. Ultimately, it sounds like they put together a pretty good event though.
@KevinHeisler how about changing the title on SEW too, so the search results for misspellings of SEOMoz's name aren't filled with listings making it appear they've been fined?
Desphunn because the article makes it appear as if a legitimate SEO company is in trouble with the law.
I dunno, there's no denying it works, but I'm still not sure it's a good idea.
There's no denying Matt Cutts has said it's ok, but I'm STILL not sure it's a good idea.
To me, this simply reeks of gaming the algorithmic system for the sake of rankings with no positive impact on users. Overall, that flys in the face of what I personally aim for with search marketing. I'd rather see a site focus on crafting something for the users instead of for the engines. Search engine FRIENDLY, but people optimized.
So this leaves me torn. Google has changed their viewpoint on things in the past.
To me, siloing using NoFollow seems like a really easy thing for an engine to pick up and either discount or penalize. It's makes it very, very clear what you're trying to do. While Matt says they're ok with it (now) there's nothing to say they won't change their mind down the road when it's no longer in their best interest to have people using it.
Personally, I'd rather see companies focus their time and efforts on really getting a conversation going with their target audience than spending time crafting page code to improve rankings, but in a highly competitive market, I can see how the temptation is there.
I remain wary of the concept, but undecided on what I'd do if I were working with a client who would benefit from the tactic. Though I will say we're not doing this at Search Engine Guide. (A site with enough links and content to actually benefit from it.) Just feels "off" to me.
Thanks guys! I think once you've been doing this stuff for awhile and you start to get a budget, it's easy to get kind of lax in the creativity. Sometimes these artificial handicaps of absurdly low budgets end up giving the kind of creative boost that show what you can do on a small budget. Besides, these kinds are fun to work on.
I'm with you on the music planetc1. Robert found that one and I adore it. Rachel and I still occasionally play the video clip just because we like the music so much. :-P
Personally, the thing I find most interesting from this thread is the implication that the show is going to stink because there are a lot of new names on it. As if the moment conference organizers step outside the "inner circle" of SEO, they're suddenly in the realm of unqualified speakers.
Think about it folks. Everyone was "new" once. Rand Fishkin, Lee Odden, Jill Whalen, Mike Grehan, even Danny Sullivan were all once "unknowns." Did that mean they didn't have anything worthwhile or interesting to say? That they had no potential to give a dynamic and informative presentation?
Seriously?
It's a big world out there folks. I hit a tiny little show in Houston this past spring focused on social media. Featured speakers I'd never heard of before (and I read quite a few social media blogs). Guess what? About 75% of them were fantastic! Great insight, great speaking style, really REALLY great speakers.
I have no doubt there's quite a few folks out there just itching for their chance. The "known" speakers simply cannot hit each and every show that happens. I assume most of them do have lives and jobs to take care of. So, more shows means more opportunities for new speakers to get a chance to step into the lime light. Some will stink, some will be average and some will shine.
But don't ever assume a show is going to stink or a session will stink simply because you've never heard of the speaker.
Excellent post Aaron. The social media marketing that so many SEOs talk about (social news/voting sites) very rarely results in more than a traffic blip and some inbound links. While there's certainly value to those inbound links, it's not the "be-all, end-all" many represent it to be.
Of course when you get into real social media marketing (blogs, Flickr, connecting with your customers on social sites, video, etc) there's plenty of opportunity and there can be amazing returns.
Torka, come join us on the dark side. :) It's where all the fun is. Honest. :)
LOL, thanks Debra.
Once I realized Twitter wasn't a big mesh of cell phone messages from people saying "I'm in line for food" it got a heck of a lot more interesting. ;)
Story: SEOs Fight Fat For Charity
Donna already wins my kudos. I thought I was putting it out there admitting what I weigh, but she took side and rear view pics to post!
Go Donna! :)
I'm with Jeeb90. I heard about the site back when it launched and kept thinking "why would I want to share my business ideas with strangers?" Taking another look at the site last week and playing around with the process, I'm now pretty impressed.
They're adding some new features aimed at boosting the educational side of things as well, so this could turn into a great community for small biz or start-up types.
Danny,
I was thinking the same thing (re: forums) when I read Kim's post. I remember, back before blogs were all the rage, how there was this mindset that things were "divided." You were either part of WMW, SEF or IHY. Then we got HR and Cre8asite going. Then SEW. People noticed Digital Point and V7N and other networks. Things spread out.
Like you said, it was just different ways of looking at things, or even just different personalities. I see the same thing going on now. People tend to gather with other like-minded people.
Do the SEL fans love SEL the most? Of course. Otherwise, they wouldn't hang out there. Do the Mozzers think that site is the best? Of course. If they didn't they'd hang someplace else.
I don't really think there's any more fighting these days either. I just think the fighting is more public. It's not confined to the community it's happening in because blogs and twitter and Facebook and the like have turned things into one giant community.
We'll always have drama queens, we'll always have instigators and we'll always have peace keepers. We can get caught up in them, or we can simply keep doing our work the best way we know how.
No one is ever going to be liked by everyone. Find your audience, focus on what makes them happy and deliver the goods. End of story.
Good grief, it's not even just the SEO bit that's horrible, it's at least half of his ten points.
Nothing says "I'm intelligent and worthy of an MSNBC column" like ranting about things you CLEARLY know nothing about.
That's like me saying quantum physics must be crap because I can't use it.
Oh goodness. His PR lady just emailed me the article with a note saying she thought I'd like it.
Has she ever READ Search Engine Guide??
ME? Like an article that says SEO and blogs are worthless for small business owners?
*sigh*
I put through the following comment:
Honestly? This article kills me.
Just because you don't understand how to properly implement something doesn't make it worthless.
Blogs? Virus software? SEO? RSS feeds? Each of these things provide incredible value to small businesses who take the time to learn how to implement them effectively.
So you got sold a bill of goods by a bad SEO company. That sucks. I'm sorry. Unfortunately, it happens pretty often. But if you hired a bad plumber or a bad lawyer, would you assume you should never seek out a plumber or lawyer again? No, you'd probably assume you hired a crappy one and start asking around for recommendations.
I fear this column, publishing in such a prominent publication will cause many small business owners to shy away from the very tactics that can serve to level the playing field between them and competitors with much deeper pockets.
Thumbs down for lack of research and overabundance of rant.
Hasn't been approved yet apparently. I don't really see any comments there from folks disagreeing with him. Hope they aren't weeding out the negative comments and rebuttles.
Story: Why the Social Media World NEEDS to Understand SEO